Thadeus III's Comments RSS Syndication from SeekingAlpha.com http://seekingalpha.comuser/337073/comments http://seekingalpha.com/article/135336-gm-bankruptcy-an-inflection-point-for-underfunded-pension-plans?source=feed#comment-524435 524435 Sat, 30 May 2009 16:05:29 -0400 http://seekingalpha.com/article/135336-gm-bankruptcy-an-inflection-point-for-underfunded-pension-plans?source=feed#comment-524433 524433 Sat, 30 May 2009 16:03:18 -0400 http://seekingalpha.com/article/135336-gm-bankruptcy-an-inflection-point-for-underfunded-pension-plans?source=feed#comment-523147 523147 Fri, 29 May 2009 14:01:55 -0400 http://seekingalpha.com/article/137162-what-to-expect-if-gm-doesn-t-learn-from-chrysler?source=feed#comment-502493 502493

For those of us who put 30 or more hard working years into working at an auto company; it's not very comforting to think that the pensions that are part of our compensation package may be ripped away from us by the excessive lawyers fees and liquidation of a full bankruptcy. To me, I accepted employment at a company with the full compensation that was offered at the time I started and when I retired. To take that away after the fact, is stealing , even if it is deemed legal.
And to set matters straight, I was in the military for 4 years during Vietnam (1969 through 1973). Before that, I put myself through a technical college earning an Associate degree in industrial electronics.
After the military I worked for two computer service companies working on everything from small business systems to industrial numerical controls, automated inspection systems, industrial X-ray systems operating at 145,000 KVA, and more. It took me into companies in the medical field such as GE X-ray and CAT scan, Evinrude Motors, several small medical equipment manufacturers, and Delco Electronics where I made my General Motors connection. The pay scale was already dwindling in the field service business and I had a family and young kids. So am I too be blamed for taking a better paying job with heath insurance and a retirement package? I am not and have never been a "lazy auto worker" as most of the people I've worked with have neither been. Every line of work has it's fair share of "skaters" looking to do as little as possible. I resent those who want to label any line of workers as lazy and doing poor quality work. At General Motors quality was pushed and pushed every day. "Quality Creates Customer Enthusiasm" was pounded into us daily and we lived up to as best we could with the design, engineering and tools were were given to work with. If you screwed up on the job, you were taken off the line and made to look at what needed to be done to rectify the issue. . . repeatedly, until it was corrected. If you screwed up more than once you were given written reprimand and after 3 times you could be given 2 -3 days off with no pay. It happened and I saw it happen regularly at the plants I worked at.
There were even employees I saw thrown out for a week or month for "loitering" or not performing their job. It was occasional , but it was authorized by both the UAW and company. So they were an example to show others what would happen if you screwed up. There was never any free lunch where I worked at several GM plants.
And just so you don't go thinking I got everything on a silver platter; in order for me to hang onto my income and retirement package I had to move 3 times while working for GM. One of the moves cost me a reduction in wages for 3 years because of going from skilled trade to line work and because of the transfer agreement for plant transfers at that time. That was a 38% pay cut and I had a family and my wife had to quit her job because of the move and find another paying much less. There is much more , but the point is my situation was NOT unique.

As GM downsized and worked at plant and employee reductions while improving both quality and efficiency; this was the result for many people as downsizing and automation, as well as trying to adjust to the unfair competition of transplant and foreign auto makers.took place.
As I said before, GM, Ford, and Chrysler made their mistakes in product choice at times and marketing. So did Toyota, Honda, and the others. They all got on the big SUV and truck wagon too and look where those sales are for them as well as the Big 3. It was the greed of oil producers first ( high prices) and then the unscrupulous and undisciplined financial gurus that drew the last straw for US brand auto companies.

So if I am defensive of what people say about GM, Ford or any US brand automaker you need to walk a bit in the shoes of those like me as I have illustrated in this post. Give people some respect or you'll get the same crap that you dish out to them. We need to get behind each other in America. Not deride, mock, or bash those that work or have worked in the auto business. This is a disgrace to us as Americans and makes us a laughing stock in the countries that are pushing this global economy upon us. ]]> Wed, 13 May 2009 15:03:02 -0400

For those of us who put 30 or more hard working years into working at an auto company; it's not very comforting to think that the pensions that are part of our compensation package may be ripped away from us by the excessive lawyers fees and liquidation of a full bankruptcy. To me, I accepted employment at a company with the full compensation that was offered at the time I started and when I retired. To take that away after the fact, is stealing , even if it is deemed legal.
And to set matters straight, I was in the military for 4 years during Vietnam (1969 through 1973). Before that, I put myself through a technical college earning an Associate degree in industrial electronics.
After the military I worked for two computer service companies working on everything from small business systems to industrial numerical controls, automated inspection systems, industrial X-ray systems operating at 145,000 KVA, and more. It took me into companies in the medical field such as GE X-ray and CAT scan, Evinrude Motors, several small medical equipment manufacturers, and Delco Electronics where I made my General Motors connection. The pay scale was already dwindling in the field service business and I had a family and young kids. So am I too be blamed for taking a better paying job with heath insurance and a retirement package? I am not and have never been a "lazy auto worker" as most of the people I've worked with have neither been. Every line of work has it's fair share of "skaters" looking to do as little as possible. I resent those who want to label any line of workers as lazy and doing poor quality work. At General Motors quality was pushed and pushed every day. "Quality Creates Customer Enthusiasm" was pounded into us daily and we lived up to as best we could with the design, engineering and tools were were given to work with. If you screwed up on the job, you were taken off the line and made to look at what needed to be done to rectify the issue. . . repeatedly, until it was corrected. If you screwed up more than once you were given written reprimand and after 3 times you could be given 2 -3 days off with no pay. It happened and I saw it happen regularly at the plants I worked at.
There were even employees I saw thrown out for a week or month for "loitering" or not performing their job. It was occasional , but it was authorized by both the UAW and company. So they were an example to show others what would happen if you screwed up. There was never any free lunch where I worked at several GM plants.
And just so you don't go thinking I got everything on a silver platter; in order for me to hang onto my income and retirement package I had to move 3 times while working for GM. One of the moves cost me a reduction in wages for 3 years because of going from skilled trade to line work and because of the transfer agreement for plant transfers at that time. That was a 38% pay cut and I had a family and my wife had to quit her job because of the move and find another paying much less. There is much more , but the point is my situation was NOT unique.

As GM downsized and worked at plant and employee reductions while improving both quality and efficiency; this was the result for many people as downsizing and automation, as well as trying to adjust to the unfair competition of transplant and foreign auto makers.took place.
As I said before, GM, Ford, and Chrysler made their mistakes in product choice at times and marketing. So did Toyota, Honda, and the others. They all got on the big SUV and truck wagon too and look where those sales are for them as well as the Big 3. It was the greed of oil producers first ( high prices) and then the unscrupulous and undisciplined financial gurus that drew the last straw for US brand auto companies.

So if I am defensive of what people say about GM, Ford or any US brand automaker you need to walk a bit in the shoes of those like me as I have illustrated in this post. Give people some respect or you'll get the same crap that you dish out to them. We need to get behind each other in America. Not deride, mock, or bash those that work or have worked in the auto business. This is a disgrace to us as Americans and makes us a laughing stock in the countries that are pushing this global economy upon us. ]]> http://seekingalpha.com/article/137389-the-ultimate-risk-of-government-influence-over-the-private-sector-part-2?source=feed#comment-502272 502272 Wed, 13 May 2009 12:57:05 -0400 http://seekingalpha.com/article/136666-uaw-it-should-be-giving-up-more?source=feed#comment-502249 502249 And to set matters straight, I was in the military for 4 years during Vietnam (1969 through 1973). Before that, I put myself through a technical college earning an Associate degree in industrial electronics.
After the military I worked for two computer service companies working on everything from small business systems to industrial numerical controls, automated inspection systems, industrial X-ray systems operating at 145,000 KVA, and more. It took me into companies in the medical field such as GE X-ray and CAT scan, Evinrude Motors, several small medical equipment manufacturers, and Delco Electronics where I made my General Motors connection. The pay scale was already dwindling in the field service business and I had a family and young kids. So am I too be blamed for taking a better paying job with heath insurance and a retirement package? I am not and have never been a "lazy auto worker" as most of the people I've worked with have neither been. Every line of work has it's fair share of "skaters" looking to do as little as possible. I resent those who want to label any line of workers as lazy and doing poor quality work. At General Motors quality was pushed and pushed every day. "Quality Creates Customer Enthusiasm" was pounded into us daily and we lived up to as best we could with the design, engineering and tools were were given to work with. If you screwed up on the job, you were taken off the line and made to look at what needed to be done to rectify the issue. . . repeatedly, until it was corrected. If you screwed up more than once you were given written reprimand and after 3 times you could be given 2 -3 days off with no pay. It happened and I saw it happen regularly at the plants I worked at.
There were even employees I saw thrown out for a week or month for "loitering" or not performing their job. It was occasional , but it was authorized by both the UAW and company. So they were an example to show others what would happen if you screwed up. There was never any free lunch where I worked at several GM plants.
And just so you don't go thinking I got everything on a silver platter; in order for me to hang onto my income and retirement package I had to move 3 times while working for GM. One of the moves cost me a reduction in wages for 3 years because of going from skilled trade to line work and because of the transfer agreement for plant transfers at that time. That was a 38% pay cut and I had a family and my wife had to quit her job because of the move and find another paying much less. There is much more , but the point is my situation was NOT unique.

As GM downsized and worked at plant and employee reductions while improving both quality and efficiency; this was the result for many people as downsizing and automation, as well as trying to adjust to the unfair competition of transplant and foreign auto makers.took place.
As I said before, GM, Ford, and Chrysler made their mistakes in product choice at times and marketing. So did Toyota, Honda, and the others. They all got on the big SUV and truck wagon too and look where those sales are for them as well as the Big 3. It was the greed of oil producers first ( high prices) and then the unscrupulous and undisciplined financial gurus that drew the last straw for US brand auto companies.

So if I am defensive of what people say about GM, Ford or any US brand automaker you need to walk a bit in the shoes of those like me as I have illustrated in this post. Give people some respect or you'll get the same crap that you dish out to them. We need to get behind each other in America. Not deride, mock, or bash those that work or have worked in the auto business. This is a disgrace to us as Americans and makes us a laughing stock in the countries that are pushing this global economy upon us.
]]> Wed, 13 May 2009 12:40:13 -0400 And to set matters straight, I was in the military for 4 years during Vietnam (1969 through 1973). Before that, I put myself through a technical college earning an Associate degree in industrial electronics.
After the military I worked for two computer service companies working on everything from small business systems to industrial numerical controls, automated inspection systems, industrial X-ray systems operating at 145,000 KVA, and more. It took me into companies in the medical field such as GE X-ray and CAT scan, Evinrude Motors, several small medical equipment manufacturers, and Delco Electronics where I made my General Motors connection. The pay scale was already dwindling in the field service business and I had a family and young kids. So am I too be blamed for taking a better paying job with heath insurance and a retirement package? I am not and have never been a "lazy auto worker" as most of the people I've worked with have neither been. Every line of work has it's fair share of "skaters" looking to do as little as possible. I resent those who want to label any line of workers as lazy and doing poor quality work. At General Motors quality was pushed and pushed every day. "Quality Creates Customer Enthusiasm" was pounded into us daily and we lived up to as best we could with the design, engineering and tools were were given to work with. If you screwed up on the job, you were taken off the line and made to look at what needed to be done to rectify the issue. . . repeatedly, until it was corrected. If you screwed up more than once you were given written reprimand and after 3 times you could be given 2 -3 days off with no pay. It happened and I saw it happen regularly at the plants I worked at.
There were even employees I saw thrown out for a week or month for "loitering" or not performing their job. It was occasional , but it was authorized by both the UAW and company. So they were an example to show others what would happen if you screwed up. There was never any free lunch where I worked at several GM plants.
And just so you don't go thinking I got everything on a silver platter; in order for me to hang onto my income and retirement package I had to move 3 times while working for GM. One of the moves cost me a reduction in wages for 3 years because of going from skilled trade to line work and because of the transfer agreement for plant transfers at that time. That was a 38% pay cut and I had a family and my wife had to quit her job because of the move and find another paying much less. There is much more , but the point is my situation was NOT unique.

As GM downsized and worked at plant and employee reductions while improving both quality and efficiency; this was the result for many people as downsizing and automation, as well as trying to adjust to the unfair competition of transplant and foreign auto makers.took place.
As I said before, GM, Ford, and Chrysler made their mistakes in product choice at times and marketing. So did Toyota, Honda, and the others. They all got on the big SUV and truck wagon too and look where those sales are for them as well as the Big 3. It was the greed of oil producers first ( high prices) and then the unscrupulous and undisciplined financial gurus that drew the last straw for US brand auto companies.

So if I am defensive of what people say about GM, Ford or any US brand automaker you need to walk a bit in the shoes of those like me as I have illustrated in this post. Give people some respect or you'll get the same crap that you dish out to them. We need to get behind each other in America. Not deride, mock, or bash those that work or have worked in the auto business. This is a disgrace to us as Americans and makes us a laughing stock in the countries that are pushing this global economy upon us.
]]> http://seekingalpha.com/article/136666-uaw-it-should-be-giving-up-more?source=feed#comment-501849 501849 "Do you think that American workers are actually having bad experiences with their VW's, Toyotas, Audis, Honda's and such, but that they keep buying those brands and shun GM out of some conspiricy or for some other reason? If so then what is it?"

No Kman, there is no "conspiricy" (sp). These brands you mentioned, particularly VW and Audi are not the best examples ( check J. D Power ratings) and sell no where near the volume of vehicles of GM, Ford, or Chrysler. In addition, you will find the VW and Audi have some of the worst J.D. Power quality and durability ratings. These kinds of cars, along with Toyota and Honda, have no better continued quality rating than comparable GM cars and trucks. The foreign brands gained sales initially because of hype from car magazines and journalists from Auto Week, Car & Driver, Motor Week, and even Motor Trend. This in spite of Honda Accords fenders rusting off in the early 80's and Toyota mechanical problems. So it became "trendy" to buy a foreign car and many other preppy types gained a following. It became "anti establishment" to buy a Honda or Toyota. They we cheap, unsafe, and rusted. And yes, so did many other American brands have similar issues. The point as I keep stressing" NO real difference in real quality, mileage, or performance." All illusion, hype, and advertising. If the Big 3 did have failings it was in advertising and how they promoted their products, along with not watching what the foreign guys were successful in doing. That, coupled with lack of government tariffs and other favorable import/export trade conditions allowed the lies of Toyota and Honda to gain market share. I've owned and driven these cars. Read my earlier post. Have you owned 30 the 40 vehicles of many different brands as I have reported? I read you owned maybe Ford or know of a few people with GM cars or trucks. You guys seem to skim over what other people write and just talk off the tops of your heads or worse, out the other end. did you actually READ the link I sent from the Wall street journal?

online.wsj.com/mdc/pub...

It shows for even the first 4 months of this year GM still outselling Toyota in US sales and Ford not far behind. But the likes of you and these "Seeking Alpha" bloggers choose to ignore that and hype up the transplant and import brands which are destroying the US industrial base and bringing wages down to the much lower global standards. But maybe that's what you want. Your kids and others having to scrape by and have 20 people living in a 900 sq. ft. wreck of a house in a bad neighborhood.]]> Wed, 13 May 2009 09:30:25 -0400 "Do you think that American workers are actually having bad experiences with their VW's, Toyotas, Audis, Honda's and such, but that they keep buying those brands and shun GM out of some conspiricy or for some other reason? If so then what is it?"

No Kman, there is no "conspiricy" (sp). These brands you mentioned, particularly VW and Audi are not the best examples ( check J. D Power ratings) and sell no where near the volume of vehicles of GM, Ford, or Chrysler. In addition, you will find the VW and Audi have some of the worst J.D. Power quality and durability ratings. These kinds of cars, along with Toyota and Honda, have no better continued quality rating than comparable GM cars and trucks. The foreign brands gained sales initially because of hype from car magazines and journalists from Auto Week, Car & Driver, Motor Week, and even Motor Trend. This in spite of Honda Accords fenders rusting off in the early 80's and Toyota mechanical problems. So it became "trendy" to buy a foreign car and many other preppy types gained a following. It became "anti establishment" to buy a Honda or Toyota. They we cheap, unsafe, and rusted. And yes, so did many other American brands have similar issues. The point as I keep stressing" NO real difference in real quality, mileage, or performance." All illusion, hype, and advertising. If the Big 3 did have failings it was in advertising and how they promoted their products, along with not watching what the foreign guys were successful in doing. That, coupled with lack of government tariffs and other favorable import/export trade conditions allowed the lies of Toyota and Honda to gain market share. I've owned and driven these cars. Read my earlier post. Have you owned 30 the 40 vehicles of many different brands as I have reported? I read you owned maybe Ford or know of a few people with GM cars or trucks. You guys seem to skim over what other people write and just talk off the tops of your heads or worse, out the other end. did you actually READ the link I sent from the Wall street journal?

online.wsj.com/mdc/pub...

It shows for even the first 4 months of this year GM still outselling Toyota in US sales and Ford not far behind. But the likes of you and these "Seeking Alpha" bloggers choose to ignore that and hype up the transplant and import brands which are destroying the US industrial base and bringing wages down to the much lower global standards. But maybe that's what you want. Your kids and others having to scrape by and have 20 people living in a 900 sq. ft. wreck of a house in a bad neighborhood.]]> http://seekingalpha.com/article/136666-uaw-it-should-be-giving-up-more?source=feed#comment-501766 501766

Zacks.com
Time to Hit the Car Lots
Thursday January 8, 10:16 am ET
By Paul Raman, CFA

We think it is an excellent time to hit the car lots. Sales are slow, inventories are high, raw materials (steel, chemicals, plastic, rubber) are depressed, and interest rates are near zero. Demand is off due to the credit crunch. Dealers and manufacturers are hurting and are hungry for business.

Despite the bad publicity recently, Chevrolet and Chrysler have some of the BEST products in the market. The non-Chevy part of General Motors (NYSE: GM - News) must be restructured. Also, Honda (NYSE: HMC - News) has emerged to be a Big-4 player in the US. They work and act more domestic than even Chrysler.

We were DISAPPOINTED with Ford , TOYOTA and NISSAN and feel they have tired OLD product lineups. A strengthening Japanese Yen may force Toyota and Nissan to become the Big-5 and Big-6 in the US. * *Toyota's* QUALITY ratings were the LOWEST among all models studied, especially for the pickup/SUV part of the product line. ]]> Wed, 13 May 2009 08:46:50 -0400

Zacks.com
Time to Hit the Car Lots
Thursday January 8, 10:16 am ET
By Paul Raman, CFA

We think it is an excellent time to hit the car lots. Sales are slow, inventories are high, raw materials (steel, chemicals, plastic, rubber) are depressed, and interest rates are near zero. Demand is off due to the credit crunch. Dealers and manufacturers are hurting and are hungry for business.

Despite the bad publicity recently, Chevrolet and Chrysler have some of the BEST products in the market. The non-Chevy part of General Motors (NYSE: GM - News) must be restructured. Also, Honda (NYSE: HMC - News) has emerged to be a Big-4 player in the US. They work and act more domestic than even Chrysler.

We were DISAPPOINTED with Ford , TOYOTA and NISSAN and feel they have tired OLD product lineups. A strengthening Japanese Yen may force Toyota and Nissan to become the Big-5 and Big-6 in the US. * *Toyota's* QUALITY ratings were the LOWEST among all models studied, especially for the pickup/SUV part of the product line. ]]> http://seekingalpha.com/article/136666-uaw-it-should-be-giving-up-more?source=feed#comment-501274 501274 online.wsj.com/mdc/pub...
Sorry. If you like Toyotas, Hondas, Hyundais, etc so much, go live in the country of their respective origins. Get behind American and their original brands. . . ALL of them. Other countries are laughing at us with all this internal criticism of American Brands. It is a disgrace.]]> Tue, 12 May 2009 19:51:35 -0400 online.wsj.com/mdc/pub...
Sorry. If you like Toyotas, Hondas, Hyundais, etc so much, go live in the country of their respective origins. Get behind American and their original brands. . . ALL of them. Other countries are laughing at us with all this internal criticism of American Brands. It is a disgrace.]]> http://seekingalpha.com/article/136666-uaw-it-should-be-giving-up-more?source=feed#comment-501270 501270
Madison Ave hype and "trendy" attitudes? Yes. . . I do believe so.]]> Tue, 12 May 2009 19:47:15 -0400
Madison Ave hype and "trendy" attitudes? Yes. . . I do believe so.]]> http://seekingalpha.com/article/136666-uaw-it-should-be-giving-up-more?source=feed#comment-500759 500759 The point is, I have not seen the advantage in durability or quality in a foreign brand. It's is largely Madison Ave. advertising hype with some "trendy" attitude and perception.
The thing I have noticed is that parts and repairs to foreign brand cars is usually higher. In other words, try collecting on you Hyundai 10 year warranty when the dealer can't get parts. What are you gonna drive when you have to wait for 3 to 6 months for a part?]]> Tue, 12 May 2009 13:45:32 -0400 The point is, I have not seen the advantage in durability or quality in a foreign brand. It's is largely Madison Ave. advertising hype with some "trendy" attitude and perception.
The thing I have noticed is that parts and repairs to foreign brand cars is usually higher. In other words, try collecting on you Hyundai 10 year warranty when the dealer can't get parts. What are you gonna drive when you have to wait for 3 to 6 months for a part?]]> http://seekingalpha.com/article/137226-ford-will-mulally-be-able-to-continue-his-masterful-job?source=feed#comment-500734 500734 Tue, 12 May 2009 13:30:33 -0400 http://seekingalpha.com/article/137226-ford-will-mulally-be-able-to-continue-his-masterful-job?source=feed#comment-500729 500729 Tue, 12 May 2009 13:25:38 -0400 http://seekingalpha.com/article/137225-chrysler-and-gm-closing-car-dealerships-will-it-hurt-sales?source=feed#comment-500721 500721 Tue, 12 May 2009 13:22:22 -0400 http://seekingalpha.com/article/133374-gm-s-viability-plan-trying-to-shrink-quickly-via-debt-exchange-offer?source=feed#comment-480263 480263 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 23:14:47 -0400 http://seekingalpha.com/article/133392-gm-lays-out-its-post-bankruptcy-plan?source=feed#comment-480256 480256 Mon, 27 Apr 2009 23:06:58 -0400 http://seekingalpha.com/article/119257-what-s-an-american-car-these-days?source=feed#comment-382193 382193
In addition, I've always told my kids to make the best of what you have, live within your means, but keep your eye open for opportunity to better yourself by making efforts to do so. Not everyone has the same talents or academic abilities, another reason for a union to help provide a worker some measure of dignity no matter what his job position. . If you keep looking at the other guy, making comparisons, and being competitive for money, you will either be unhappy or an arrogant blowhard that no one wants to be around (except others like you).
This country needs to take care of it's own as other countries have for years. Instead of criticizing and and forming narrow minded opinions, we need to see how the rest of the world is handling this financial crisis. And Kman, I applaud you for your moving into the electrical field. Ir does require a lot of sacrifice to travel and move around a lot. I have a friend that did electrical contract work as you are. But he decoded to eventually work for a local contractor for less pay and a weekly paycheck to be with his kids and family. We need to be mindful of other people's circumstances and respect their decisions. ]]> Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:34:43 -0500
In addition, I've always told my kids to make the best of what you have, live within your means, but keep your eye open for opportunity to better yourself by making efforts to do so. Not everyone has the same talents or academic abilities, another reason for a union to help provide a worker some measure of dignity no matter what his job position. . If you keep looking at the other guy, making comparisons, and being competitive for money, you will either be unhappy or an arrogant blowhard that no one wants to be around (except others like you).
This country needs to take care of it's own as other countries have for years. Instead of criticizing and and forming narrow minded opinions, we need to see how the rest of the world is handling this financial crisis. And Kman, I applaud you for your moving into the electrical field. Ir does require a lot of sacrifice to travel and move around a lot. I have a friend that did electrical contract work as you are. But he decoded to eventually work for a local contractor for less pay and a weekly paycheck to be with his kids and family. We need to be mindful of other people's circumstances and respect their decisions. ]]> http://seekingalpha.com/article/118676-gm-and-chrysler-buyout-offers-should-taxpayers-be-angry?source=feed#comment-382121 382121 Tue, 10 Feb 2009 09:02:53 -0500 http://seekingalpha.com/article/118676-gm-and-chrysler-buyout-offers-should-taxpayers-be-angry?source=feed#comment-381352 381352 It might also mean more if we could believe that this stuff doesn't just come from off the top of his head, or worse, the other end.]]> Mon, 09 Feb 2009 14:27:34 -0500 It might also mean more if we could believe that this stuff doesn't just come from off the top of his head, or worse, the other end.]]> http://seekingalpha.com/article/118676-gm-and-chrysler-buyout-offers-should-taxpayers-be-angry?source=feed#comment-378634 378634
Nice try. You use many words to say little if anything of substance or that is valid. You have too much time on your hands to write this much nonsense and are apparently miffed at what auto workers get for compensation. You didn't like factory work by your own admission, and now find auto workers, the union and GM/Chrysler the target you wish to vent on. You have ignored most, if not all, what I said . Do you really want GM and Chrysler to go bankrupt, empty out the pension funds, etc? Then you would be complaining how the PBGC ( government and your tax $$) has to take on all the underfunded or depleted pension funds.You have just shown you are among the narrow minded folks who can't cope with others choices. And where do you get $100K? Never mind, I really don;t care to know.
If you, and people like you, can't understand how much more other countries have done, and are doing, for their own people and businesses, than the US government is doing for us; we are doomed because of you attitudes. Listen to or watch DW-TV, the BBC, CC-TV, etc. These broadcasts would enlighten you to how what countries have done for Opel, BMW, VW, Audi, Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Fiat, and many more. Your comments reveal what sort of person you really are. I won't waste any more of my time or words on someone like you.]]> Fri, 06 Feb 2009 14:18:00 -0500
Nice try. You use many words to say little if anything of substance or that is valid. You have too much time on your hands to write this much nonsense and are apparently miffed at what auto workers get for compensation. You didn't like factory work by your own admission, and now find auto workers, the union and GM/Chrysler the target you wish to vent on. You have ignored most, if not all, what I said . Do you really want GM and Chrysler to go bankrupt, empty out the pension funds, etc? Then you would be complaining how the PBGC ( government and your tax $$) has to take on all the underfunded or depleted pension funds.You have just shown you are among the narrow minded folks who can't cope with others choices. And where do you get $100K? Never mind, I really don;t care to know.
If you, and people like you, can't understand how much more other countries have done, and are doing, for their own people and businesses, than the US government is doing for us; we are doomed because of you attitudes. Listen to or watch DW-TV, the BBC, CC-TV, etc. These broadcasts would enlighten you to how what countries have done for Opel, BMW, VW, Audi, Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Fiat, and many more. Your comments reveal what sort of person you really are. I won't waste any more of my time or words on someone like you.]]> http://seekingalpha.com/article/118676-gm-and-chrysler-buyout-offers-should-taxpayers-be-angry?source=feed#comment-378145 378145 Fri, 06 Feb 2009 09:32:34 -0500 http://seekingalpha.com/article/118676-gm-and-chrysler-buyout-offers-should-taxpayers-be-angry?source=feed#comment-378110 378110 After reading all of you rather long comments I can agree with some of what you say. However, like the majority of Americans, you need to look at what other countries are and have been doing for their businesses, people, and banks, not just now, but for YEARS. . In Japan, China, and especially Germany and other European countries the governments have been subsidizing their car makers for years. Since last Fall, Germany has been giving it's citizens a cash incentive to buy GERMAN made cars such as the now popular Opel Agila. When a $5K incentive is suggested here in the US all people can do is complain about how it's helping those lazy *#@$! auto workers and their companies. Other countries have always been protectionist. Ever since WWII the U.S.A. has been too much the worlds care taker. People here need to get past petty jealousies and prejudice when it comes to the well being of us all. There will never be a time when all of us get the same pay or benefits. I've always told my kids to make the best of what you have, live within your means, but keep your eye open for opportunity to better yourself by making efforts to do so. Not everyone has the same talents or academic abilities. If you keep looking at the other guy, making comparisons, and being competitive for money, you will either be unhappy or an arrogant blowhard that no one wants to be around (except others like you).
This country needs to take care of it's own as other countries have for years. Instead of criticizing and and forming narrow minded opinions, we need to see how the rest of the world is handling this financial crisis. And Kman, I applaud you for your moving into the electrical field. Ir does require a lot of sacrifice to travel and move around a lot. I have a friend that did electrical contract work as you are. But he decoded to eventually work for a local contractor for less pay and a weekly paycheck to be with his kids and family. We need to be mindful of other people's circumstances and respect their decisions. ]]> Fri, 06 Feb 2009 09:14:08 -0500 After reading all of you rather long comments I can agree with some of what you say. However, like the majority of Americans, you need to look at what other countries are and have been doing for their businesses, people, and banks, not just now, but for YEARS. . In Japan, China, and especially Germany and other European countries the governments have been subsidizing their car makers for years. Since last Fall, Germany has been giving it's citizens a cash incentive to buy GERMAN made cars such as the now popular Opel Agila. When a $5K incentive is suggested here in the US all people can do is complain about how it's helping those lazy *#@$! auto workers and their companies. Other countries have always been protectionist. Ever since WWII the U.S.A. has been too much the worlds care taker. People here need to get past petty jealousies and prejudice when it comes to the well being of us all. There will never be a time when all of us get the same pay or benefits. I've always told my kids to make the best of what you have, live within your means, but keep your eye open for opportunity to better yourself by making efforts to do so. Not everyone has the same talents or academic abilities. If you keep looking at the other guy, making comparisons, and being competitive for money, you will either be unhappy or an arrogant blowhard that no one wants to be around (except others like you).
This country needs to take care of it's own as other countries have for years. Instead of criticizing and and forming narrow minded opinions, we need to see how the rest of the world is handling this financial crisis. And Kman, I applaud you for your moving into the electrical field. Ir does require a lot of sacrifice to travel and move around a lot. I have a friend that did electrical contract work as you are. But he decoded to eventually work for a local contractor for less pay and a weekly paycheck to be with his kids and family. We need to be mindful of other people's circumstances and respect their decisions. ]]> http://seekingalpha.com/article/118676-gm-and-chrysler-buyout-offers-should-taxpayers-be-angry?source=feed#comment-376896 376896 But at least this is a forum for comment. . .]]> Thu, 05 Feb 2009 10:40:42 -0500 But at least this is a forum for comment. . .]]> http://seekingalpha.com/article/118688-5k-vouchers-for-car-purchases-utter-nonsense?source=feed#comment-376732 376732 On the home buying front, a local PVC pipe manufacturer just went out of business here and also another commercial building supplier. The "trickle down" effect is now happening. I don't want to think it, but I see a lot more unemployment, businesses folding, and people on the street before this gets better. I don't see it getting better till possible mid 2010, and that is iffy.]]> Thu, 05 Feb 2009 09:30:14 -0500 On the home buying front, a local PVC pipe manufacturer just went out of business here and also another commercial building supplier. The "trickle down" effect is now happening. I don't want to think it, but I see a lot more unemployment, businesses folding, and people on the street before this gets better. I don't see it getting better till possible mid 2010, and that is iffy.]]> http://seekingalpha.com/article/118676-gm-and-chrysler-buyout-offers-should-taxpayers-be-angry?source=feed#comment-376609 376609
" It’s one thing if a firm does that with the capital of its private shareholders, but quite another if they use public money toward that end. "

". . .I’m not so sure paying those employees an exit bonus is, in principle, different from John Thain paying bonuses to exiting Merrill employees in advance of its acquisition by Bank of America (BAC). "

The first statement is an assumption. The money is not coming from US taxpayers. The money , last time in 2008, came out of the employees own pension reserves and didn't cost GM any money that wasn't already put aside by law for pension benefits. If anything, that was an unethical thing to do to current and future retirees. Almost like the US government raiding the Social Security fund for I.O.U.s.
Your second statement is a faulty analogy.This will be the 4th time since 1982 that GM and the Big 3 offered employees special attrition packages to reduce head count, so precedence has been made. It's not a "reward the rats jumping ship" sort of thing like the banks and finance shysters did. The special attrition program is just that. A means to open the door so the Big 3 can hire $14/hr employees. ]]> Thu, 05 Feb 2009 08:30:01 -0500
" It’s one thing if a firm does that with the capital of its private shareholders, but quite another if they use public money toward that end. "

". . .I’m not so sure paying those employees an exit bonus is, in principle, different from John Thain paying bonuses to exiting Merrill employees in advance of its acquisition by Bank of America (BAC). "

The first statement is an assumption. The money is not coming from US taxpayers. The money , last time in 2008, came out of the employees own pension reserves and didn't cost GM any money that wasn't already put aside by law for pension benefits. If anything, that was an unethical thing to do to current and future retirees. Almost like the US government raiding the Social Security fund for I.O.U.s.
Your second statement is a faulty analogy.This will be the 4th time since 1982 that GM and the Big 3 offered employees special attrition packages to reduce head count, so precedence has been made. It's not a "reward the rats jumping ship" sort of thing like the banks and finance shysters did. The special attrition program is just that. A means to open the door so the Big 3 can hire $14/hr employees. ]]> http://seekingalpha.com/article/118676-gm-and-chrysler-buyout-offers-should-taxpayers-be-angry?source=feed#comment-376588 376588 I get the feeling they are either fretting for their own existence or still wet behind the ears. This is one of several articles I've read on this website from writers who are apparently selected to attract readers and build up traffic for the advertisers of this site. A good many of these "writers" may be freshly out of work from corrupt or defunct finance and banking outfits that had shady dealings. They do little if any research to get all the facts straight, let alone their own thinking.
In addition, I would agree that a reduction in wages and benefits seems logical and would reduce costs some degree. This would not result in any viable improvement in the short or even near term. Especially when the cost of labor at even the overstated 70 some dollar amount is only 5 to 10% the cost of an vehicle depending on what plant and company you are talking about. Wages and compensation have not been a major issue for years at the BIG 3 when it comes to profitability. Labor costs per vehicle and hours per vehicle produced have gone down significantly over the last 15-20 years. To put it into perspective, in Henry Fords heyday of the model T, his labor costs were approximately 15% of a vehicle. This includes the housing, schools, medical care, etc that Ford originally provided at his "Ford City" operations. And he was happy with that. If you don't believe labor costs are not so much an issue, take a look at Toyota and Honda. They have lower labor costs but what does that matter when sales are sluggish or greatly reduced.
One more thing. Labor was never really an issue at the Big 3, because they would happily have workers work overtime which really decreased the per unit cost of a vehicle. Over the last 20 years, the practice has been to reduce head count and then speed up the assembly line while having folks work 10 hr shifts 5 or 6 days a week. ]]> Thu, 05 Feb 2009 08:14:17 -0500 I get the feeling they are either fretting for their own existence or still wet behind the ears. This is one of several articles I've read on this website from writers who are apparently selected to attract readers and build up traffic for the advertisers of this site. A good many of these "writers" may be freshly out of work from corrupt or defunct finance and banking outfits that had shady dealings. They do little if any research to get all the facts straight, let alone their own thinking.
In addition, I would agree that a reduction in wages and benefits seems logical and would reduce costs some degree. This would not result in any viable improvement in the short or even near term. Especially when the cost of labor at even the overstated 70 some dollar amount is only 5 to 10% the cost of an vehicle depending on what plant and company you are talking about. Wages and compensation have not been a major issue for years at the BIG 3 when it comes to profitability. Labor costs per vehicle and hours per vehicle produced have gone down significantly over the last 15-20 years. To put it into perspective, in Henry Fords heyday of the model T, his labor costs were approximately 15% of a vehicle. This includes the housing, schools, medical care, etc that Ford originally provided at his "Ford City" operations. And he was happy with that. If you don't believe labor costs are not so much an issue, take a look at Toyota and Honda. They have lower labor costs but what does that matter when sales are sluggish or greatly reduced.
One more thing. Labor was never really an issue at the Big 3, because they would happily have workers work overtime which really decreased the per unit cost of a vehicle. Over the last 20 years, the practice has been to reduce head count and then speed up the assembly line while having folks work 10 hr shifts 5 or 6 days a week. ]]> http://seekingalpha.com/article/118448-gm-to-work-with-san-francisco-to-launch-volt?source=feed#comment-376119 376119 " NG is cheap right now but once it is used at the rate thadeus & jack suggest the price will be bid up and taxed just like gasoline has been. "

If NG were to become the predominate fuel, yes, that would likely happen. But we are talking from a clean, alternative fuel standpoint that could be put to use relatively cheaply and easily. It would take years for prices and taxes to be bid up. In the meantime, oil could be put to better uses and costs reduced by having another player on the block. Lithium ion battery technology is not likely to be very viable. This whole battery technology thing has developed into a "chess game" what with GM having had rights to the technology, then selling it off to an oil company, and then Toyota grabbing it up. Why do you think Toyota got to have a hybrid so much sooner than other auto makers? This is all more a manipulation involving both company and government politics.]]> Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:15:53 -0500 " NG is cheap right now but once it is used at the rate thadeus & jack suggest the price will be bid up and taxed just like gasoline has been. "

If NG were to become the predominate fuel, yes, that would likely happen. But we are talking from a clean, alternative fuel standpoint that could be put to use relatively cheaply and easily. It would take years for prices and taxes to be bid up. In the meantime, oil could be put to better uses and costs reduced by having another player on the block. Lithium ion battery technology is not likely to be very viable. This whole battery technology thing has developed into a "chess game" what with GM having had rights to the technology, then selling it off to an oil company, and then Toyota grabbing it up. Why do you think Toyota got to have a hybrid so much sooner than other auto makers? This is all more a manipulation involving both company and government politics.]]> http://seekingalpha.com/article/118367-is-gm-s-worker-buyout-offer-insulting?source=feed#comment-376069 376069 " It is ironic, but if every Tier 1 hourly employee at GM and Chrysler took a buyout, the companies would quickly become viable again. This reduces the term that the government loans would be needed, and accelerate the payback of the loans. "

I would agree that your statement seems logical, and certainly, reduction in wages and benefits would reduce costs some degree. This would not result in any viable improvement in the short or even near term. Especially when the cost of labor at even the overstated 70 some dollar amount is only 5 to 10% the cost of an vehicle depending on what plant and company you are talking about. Wages and compensation have not been a major issue for years at the BIG 3 when it comes to profitability. Labor costs per vehicle and hours per vehicle produced have gone down significantly over the last 15-20 years. To put it into perspective, in Henry Fords heyday of the model T, his labor costs were approximately 15% of a vehicle. This includes the housing, schools, medical care, etc that Ford originally provided at his "Ford City" operations. And he was happy with that. If you don't believe labor costs are not so much an issue, take a look at Toyota and Honda. They have lower labor costs but what does that matter when sales are sluggish or greatly reduced.
One more thing. Labor was never really an issue at the Big 3, because they would happily have workers work overtime which really decreased the per unit cost of a vehicle. Over the last 20 years, the practice has been to reduce head count and then speed up the assembly line while having folks work 10 hr shifts 5 or 6 days a week.]]> Wed, 04 Feb 2009 16:36:50 -0500 " It is ironic, but if every Tier 1 hourly employee at GM and Chrysler took a buyout, the companies would quickly become viable again. This reduces the term that the government loans would be needed, and accelerate the payback of the loans. "

I would agree that your statement seems logical, and certainly, reduction in wages and benefits would reduce costs some degree. This would not result in any viable improvement in the short or even near term. Especially when the cost of labor at even the overstated 70 some dollar amount is only 5 to 10% the cost of an vehicle depending on what plant and company you are talking about. Wages and compensation have not been a major issue for years at the BIG 3 when it comes to profitability. Labor costs per vehicle and hours per vehicle produced have gone down significantly over the last 15-20 years. To put it into perspective, in Henry Fords heyday of the model T, his labor costs were approximately 15% of a vehicle. This includes the housing, schools, medical care, etc that Ford originally provided at his "Ford City" operations. And he was happy with that. If you don't believe labor costs are not so much an issue, take a look at Toyota and Honda. They have lower labor costs but what does that matter when sales are sluggish or greatly reduced.
One more thing. Labor was never really an issue at the Big 3, because they would happily have workers work overtime which really decreased the per unit cost of a vehicle. Over the last 20 years, the practice has been to reduce head count and then speed up the assembly line while having folks work 10 hr shifts 5 or 6 days a week.]]> http://seekingalpha.com/article/118367-is-gm-s-worker-buyout-offer-insulting?source=feed#comment-376042 376042
" As regards the issue of sabotaging assembly lines, it was widely reported during those years. And it didn't involve just a few embittered workers, either. "

I see you have formed an opinion in the past and have no problem applying it to today's circumstances. To whatever extent, that was then, this is now. It isn't the fault of employees that the Big 3 are having difficulties. You apparently want to ignore the economic climate brought about largely by unregulated or irresponsible banking and finance operations. If you were alive since WWII, then you should also realize that in the boom years afterwards, many, many companies had defined pension plans, profit sharing, medical insurance, etc. The buyout money is now being offered, again, to try and persuade people who have 10, 15, 25 years to give that up. Should they have gone the private investor route and formed their own retirement plan? Take a look at how many folks were ready to retire last year or this year and have had their plans changed for them. You seem to be one of those individuals that are critical of hourly workers trying to obtain a standard of living commensurate with the physical effort and health risks involved.
I can call to mind and bring up many more serious consequences the "haves and have mores" brought about to this country. How is it you completely ignored my mention of that item? The auto loans are just that... loans. Unlike the real bailout that congress bestowed on the finance and banking rascals. It is both revealing and interesting that you aren't so offended by hundreds of billions of giveaway cash to the very folks who brought about this failed economy, but are so critical of a loan to the auto companies of a very much smaller amount. Perhaps you are one of the "haves" that benefit in some way. I , and many more Americans, take offense at congress bailing out and rewarding those who got us into this mess. Typical of opportunistic "haves". Complain about taxes and regulations so as to put the most in their pockets, but be there with their hands out for grants, tax breaks, etc. All at the expense of the average person whose efforts made an industry it's profits. If companies were actually fair about compensation, unions, contracts, bargaining wouldn't be required. ]]> Wed, 04 Feb 2009 16:21:46 -0500
" As regards the issue of sabotaging assembly lines, it was widely reported during those years. And it didn't involve just a few embittered workers, either. "

I see you have formed an opinion in the past and have no problem applying it to today's circumstances. To whatever extent, that was then, this is now. It isn't the fault of employees that the Big 3 are having difficulties. You apparently want to ignore the economic climate brought about largely by unregulated or irresponsible banking and finance operations. If you were alive since WWII, then you should also realize that in the boom years afterwards, many, many companies had defined pension plans, profit sharing, medical insurance, etc. The buyout money is now being offered, again, to try and persuade people who have 10, 15, 25 years to give that up. Should they have gone the private investor route and formed their own retirement plan? Take a look at how many folks were ready to retire last year or this year and have had their plans changed for them. You seem to be one of those individuals that are critical of hourly workers trying to obtain a standard of living commensurate with the physical effort and health risks involved.
I can call to mind and bring up many more serious consequences the "haves and have mores" brought about to this country. How is it you completely ignored my mention of that item? The auto loans are just that... loans. Unlike the real bailout that congress bestowed on the finance and banking rascals. It is both revealing and interesting that you aren't so offended by hundreds of billions of giveaway cash to the very folks who brought about this failed economy, but are so critical of a loan to the auto companies of a very much smaller amount. Perhaps you are one of the "haves" that benefit in some way. I , and many more Americans, take offense at congress bailing out and rewarding those who got us into this mess. Typical of opportunistic "haves". Complain about taxes and regulations so as to put the most in their pockets, but be there with their hands out for grants, tax breaks, etc. All at the expense of the average person whose efforts made an industry it's profits. If companies were actually fair about compensation, unions, contracts, bargaining wouldn't be required. ]]> http://seekingalpha.com/article/118448-gm-to-work-with-san-francisco-to-launch-volt?source=feed#comment-375516 375516 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:03:05 -0500