Thadeus III

Is GM's Worker Buyout Offer Insulting?

@Killinger
I am kind of surprised.
"How about prison instead, which is where the rest of the criminals go. "

To make a blanket statement like this reveals a surprising degree of bias, ignorance, and class prejudice. How about some people happen to live where auto companies provided jobs and did the best they could? But I suppose being opportunistic in business or enterprise and beating the next guy is more ethical? Not everyone can be a CEO, entrepreneur, or business/finance guru. There has to be a lot more "indians" than "chiefs.
Most people worked at auto plants to provide for their family and obtain some semblance of well being. Most would not have thought of sabotage or damaging a vehicle. Even so, I have seen much greater damage to our country, economy, and people by ruthless, egotistic "haves" and "have mores" as George Bush referred to his political and social base. It's comments like yours that give me pause to accept your credibility. I will give you that NG would be a very viable alternative for fuel in vehicles as you promote in some of your other articles. I

Is GM's Worker Buyout Offer Insulting?

Oh..... and last year the money was taken from the employees pension funds, so it essentially cost GM nothing it already hadn't set aside in the pension fund. Actually, taking funds needed for future pension payments didn't seem a very equitable thing to do for current and future retirees.But then again, the US government was always good at taking money out of the Social Security account wasn't it? At any rate, the same government wouldn't let GM or the UAW approve robbing the pension plan again this time.

Is GM's Worker Buyout Offer Insulting?

sorry. . . that's "$62K for skilled and $70K instead of $70 . Typo

Is GM's Worker Buyout Offer Insulting?

@ Kirk :
" It's worse than last year, when GM offered a $70,000 cash package."

Umm.. you need to check your facts. The buyouts last year for most eligible workers at GM were $45K for line workers and $62 for skilled trade workers. $70 was available for people with at least 10 years who would sever all ties with GM. And not that many were willing to give up tenure, future medical coverage, and permanent pension reduction for $70K.
You make it sound as thought "every worker" was offered $70K. If you are going to write an article, please include ALL of the pertinent facts instead of making a blanket statement.

Why Won't GM Just Go Away?

Carlos needs to re-read this post.

Zacks.com
Time to Hit the Car Lots
Thursday January 8, 10:16 am ET
By Paul Raman, CFA

We think it is an excellent time to hit the car lots. Sales are slow, inventories are high, raw materials (steel, chemicals, plastic, rubber) are depressed, and interest rates are near zero. Demand is off due to the credit crunch. Dealers and manufacturers are hurting and are hungry for business.

Despite the bad publicity recently, Chevrolet and Chrysler have some of the BEST products in the market. The non-Chevy part of General Motors (NYSE: GM - News) must be restructured. Also, Honda (NYSE: HMC - News) has emerged to be a Big-4 player in the US. They work and act more domestic than even Chrysler.

We were DISAPPOINTED with Ford , TOYOTA and NISSAN and feel they have tired OLD product lineups. A strengthening Japanese Yen may force Toyota and Nissan to become the Big-5 and Big-6 in the US. * *Toyota's* QUALITY ratings were the LOWEST among all models studied, especially for the pickup/SUV part of the product line.

What Big Auto Wants from Obama

I'm wondering who and what is a "Detroiter"? I have never lived in Michigan, am not in a union, and have never understood how some people think that a union dictates fiscal and R&D policy in an auto company. If some of you commenters were around in the 1930's, '40s, and even '50s, you would know that the reason that unions got a foothold was because companies and CEOs were making larger and larger profits without being very considerate or fair to its workers. Safety on a job was nearly unheard of, let alone concern for an employee and his family's well being. The current problem for the automakers was because of the investment banking "gurus" who had years of stuffing their pockets from profits through irresponsible financial practices. Large industrial businesses such at the Big 3 depend on a line of credit for raw materials, parts, maintaining dealer inventory, etc. Dry up that line of credit and the financial reserves the Big 3 had were being used up in months. Not to mention that now potential customers have an extremely difficult time getting financing.
Yes, the auto companies, consumers, and other businesses got caught up in the free wheeling way of credit to carry on day to day business and purchases. Again , it was the financial sector who was "creative" and provided no end of financial "products" to supply money and hide the risks of it in the retail, financial and real estate markets.
So, you want to blame individuals wanting a safe work environment and a decent standard of living for today's current financial problems? To put it another way. A lot of companies are now wanting to pay only $14 - $18/hr and have an employee both fund his/her own 401k pension plan plus make hefty co-pays for health care. Two people working in a family with this kind of compensation doesn't leave much for discretionary income, let alone purchasing a new car or home. I guess this is ok if you count yourself as one of the chosen few that think you deserve all you can get from opportunism and shrewdness, while saying everyone else deserves what they get for doing the bulk hard work in an economy. This amounts to nothing more than feudalism like in the middle ages and an arrogant aristocratic society calling the shots as long as they can remain on top at the expense of the many. There are very few companies and very few business owners who truly value the employees that make them the money. Some people have to do the work. Some actually choose manual labor, a skilled trade, or craft because it suits them or their families circumstances. So that makes them fair game for an opportunistic employer to exploit them in whatever way they can? Wow. If that's the case then society has come full circle in the last 500 years or so.

Four Myths from Detroit's Auto Show

Ok so let's rehash the past. Early Honda Accords (1979-1982 were rust buckets. They couldn't keep fenders on them. They also had a tendency to start using oil at relatively low mileage and then gas mileage would also suffer. Google it. Nissan (Datsun) engines have always had problems with oil seals failing. Even later model 1998 - 2005. I could go on. Both currently made Honda Accord ( harsh ride, poor seat comfort, poor mpg) and Toyota Camry ( slipping transmissions) are suffering from quality and performance issues.But how about this from last week:


Zacks.com
Time to Hit the Car Lots
Thursday January 8, 10:16 am ET
By Paul Raman, CFA

We think it is an excellent time to hit the car lots. Sales are slow, inventories are high, raw materials (steel, chemicals, plastic, rubber) are depressed, and interest rates are near zero. Demand is off due to the credit crunch. Dealers and manufacturers are hurting and are hungry for business.

Despite the bad publicity recently, Chevrolet and Chrysler have some of the BEST products in the market. The non-Chevy part of General Motors (NYSE: GM - News) must be restructured. Also, Honda (NYSE: HMC - News) has emerged to be a Big-4 player in the US. They work and act more domestic than even Chrysler.

We were DISAPPOINTED with Ford , TOYOTA and NISSAN , and feel they have TIRED OLD product lineups. A strengthening Japanese Yen may force Toyota and Nissan to become the Big-5 and Big-6 in the US. Toyota's QUALITY ratings were the LOWEST among all models studied, especially for the pickup/SUV part of the product line.

What Big Auto Wants from Obama

Ok so let's rehash the past. Early Honda Accords (1979-1982 were rust buckets. They couldn't keep fenders on them. They also had a tendency to start using oil at relatively low mileage and then gas mileage would also suffer. Google it. Nissan (Datsun) engines have always had problems with oil seals failing. Even later model 1998 - 2005. I could go on. But how about this from last week:


Zacks.com
Time to Hit the Car Lots
Thursday January 8, 10:16 am ET
By Paul Raman, CFA

We think it is an excellent time to hit the car lots. Sales are slow, inventories are high, raw materials (steel, chemicals, plastic, rubber) are depressed, and interest rates are near zero. Demand is off due to the credit crunch. Dealers and manufacturers are hurting and are hungry for business.

Despite the bad publicity recently, Chevrolet and Chrysler have some of the BEST products in the market. The non-Chevy part of General Motors (NYSE: GM - News) must be restructured. Also, Honda (NYSE: HMC - News) has emerged to be a Big-4 player in the US. They work and act more domestic than even Chrysler.

We were DISAPPOINTED with Ford , TOYOTA and NISSAN , and feel they have TIRED OLD product lineups. A strengthening Japanese Yen may force Toyota and Nissan to become the Big-5 and Big-6 in the US. Toyota's QUALITY ratings were the LOWEST among all models studied, especially for the pickup/SUV part of the product line.

Why Won't GM Just Go Away?

No. US buyers of Nissan or any foreign product still sends money out of the country. Benefiting from some Nissan rebate or price reduction because of a Japanese government subsidy is the very same opportunistic principal that got us here, just on a smaller scale. And Nissan, Honda, or Toyota workers have been duped into working for those companies. Where do you think they will be when those companies want to dump them as their "legacy cost" approach GM's or Ford's. The Asian companies are just being opportunists by moving their factory here. It's short sighted. You don't see the larger economic picture.


On Jan 14 11:49 AM Paul Killinger wrote:

> Oh, and if the Japanese government is subsidizing Nissan's loss,
> aren't U.S. Nissan buyers benfiting from this foreign subsidy?

Why Won't GM Just Go Away?

I wish it were a simple thing to help people understand the total economics of this country, it's companies, the banking and investment business, and the fainess of wages and benefits. Alas, these are very complex issues. Suffice it to say, the "trickle down" theory of wealth and a reasonable standard of living, have not been well served over the years. Greed by investors, CEOs, many businesses and politicians bowing to lobbyists in Washington have gotten us to this point. Add to that, global economic issues and many businesses trying to compete with foreign manufacturing, illegal immigrants here in the workforce pulling working people down closer to third world standards, and the near future seems bleak indeed. If the problem is lack of credit now, how bad will it be when more people can't qualify for credit and make the purchases any business needs to sustain itself? _It's not a "have your cake and it it too" thing for busness, investors, banks, the real estate marketers, etc to reap gross profits and have an "I got mine" attitude, and then expect that everyone else working for a living should have only what the aforementioned think they deserve. And this for just being the backbone that makes any business operate. Despite how many jobs ( even auto workers ) wages have escalated to $20 - $30/hr, people have fallen behind in earning power especially in the last 30 years. $18 - 25/hr is not a high wage anymore folks.Especially in a one wage earner family and that worker is somehow supposed to fund his/her own 401K for retirement AND suffer a high co-pay for health care. How many of you folks remember when, in the 50's and 60's one earner families were the norm? It's the greed of the few that have pushed costs up so high that now the saturation point has been reached where there is little or no discretionary income left for the majority of workers. Sad to say, but every dollar we choose to use and buy foreign products sends $$$ out of the country. Lexus, Acura, Maxima, Hyundai, BMW. No matter if they are made here on not they represent big $$$$$ out of the US. Sure it's difficult to buy other items not from China, Malaysia, or Korea. But buying American products where we can, especially big ticket items, would certainly not hurt. But maybe ego and status is still too important so then, here we all are.

Why Won't GM Just Go Away?

I am thinking that a lot of the lower level people in the failed greedy, irresponsible financial world are turning to free lance "journalism" like Mr. Snyder. Where does Alpha get these people. AS for the UAW being cooperative. You need to review all the give backs, reductions in benefits, and job loss the UAW conceded particularly in 1982, 1986, and in the last 10 years. On a related note about US vs foreign autos:


Zacks.com
Time to Hit the Car Lots
Thursday January 8, 10:16 am ET
By Paul Raman, CFA

We think it is an excellent time to hit the car lots. Sales are slow, inventories are high, raw materials (steel, chemicals, plastic, rubber) are depressed, and interest rates are near zero. Demand is off due to the credit crunch. Dealers and manufacturers are hurting and are hungry for business.

Despite the bad publicity recently, Chevrolet and Chrysler have some of the best products in the market. The non-Chevy part of General Motors (NYSE: GM - News) must be restructured. Also, Honda (NYSE: HMC - News) has emerged to be a Big-4 player in the US. They work and act more domestic than even Chrysler.

We were disappointed with Ford , Toyota and Nissan , and feel they have tired old product lineups. A strengthening Japanese Yen may force Toyota and Nissan to become the Big-5 and Big-6 in the US. Toyota's quality ratings were the lowest among all models studied, especially for the pickup/SUV part of the product line.