Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
I'm a big Corvette fan, and as of recently Mustangs. I have a soft spot for AMG as well. While I love Porsche's (particularly the Panamera) They seem to be rather expensive for the performance. The $77K, V6 Panamera for example has the acceleration of a 1995 Camaro. For the same price a Z06 is 505 hp and only about 3200lbs. I expect at least 21 century performance for over $50K. Cadillac CTSV by far has to be the best bang for the buck over an M5.
I have no doubt that a Model S is quick and without a gearshift, probably would be pretty formidable on a drag race. However top speed is limited to 130mpg (slightly above a minivan, your Panamera is about 175mph or so) which would kill you at a road course where you'll get passed on straightaways at over 160mph. A long enough road course would drain the freaking battery while trying to drive the Model S that hard. The most important thing missing from an EV is the engine noise. I might even consider a Model S if they offered it in V8.
I don't know what you mean by a button compromising vs being a desirable feature. I admit the Panamera's button's are a bit busy, I assume you don't need to navigate a menu to open the sunroof though.
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
Neil....shouldn't have bought a Porsche that's all I gotta say. German cars insist on frequent and expensive maintenance schedules and reliance on 91 octane for no other reason then to make them extra money. Even Tesla wants an annual expensive service charge for a car that's supposed to be low maintenance. You would have gotten more performance per dollar on an American or Japanese car.
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
Randy-Motor Trend Car of the Year has gone to everything from the Vega to the Malibu and Taurus. You don't have to build a flying car to get the award. For the most part you just have to have a new release and you get bonus points for having a new technology of any kind, successful or not. There are many more people in the world, far better than Elon Musk who have accomplished a lot more and do not have an ego. By your rationale, we should have bought stock in GM after the Volt won Car of the Year.
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
JRP3, I'm sure Boeing and Dell would disagree with you. Or even Toyota after Sandy. As for Proterra, they've been around for almost 3 years now and we see how well that's catching on.
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
Alexia...forgive me, but after you commented that Teslaflight sounded like a very smart lady who shares the same investment strategy as you, only to be revealed later that it came to her in a dream, I'm going to have to write you off from now on.
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
Teslaflight....I have no idea what your last few comments have been getting at. I'll attempt to understand though....are you saying there was no government involvement or money in the Great Depression? Or that WWII somehow started in 1943? I'm so freaking confused by this comment I don't know how to respond to it. Then again after you went to dreamland in your last comment I shouldn't even bother.
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
Teddy....your SpaceX knowledge and rocket knowledge in general is almost not worth wasting time debating. I don't expect any Tesla fan to understand rockets nor the complicated launch industry. You guys are environmental fanatics who think by buying a new luxury car is going to save a polar bear. However, rocket launches have nothing to do with being green (quite the contrary) and have everything to do with showcasing your company (or country's) technology on a very low margin, high overhead business model. If Elon only owned Tesla and Solar City, I'd go along with what he claims is his mission in life, however, since he's just an ego maniac who wants to buy into flagship industries as the ultimate show of wealth, he also happens to be into rockets.
First off, since you have no idea what the overhead cost are for a rocket launch, your simple statement of "billions" doesn't mean much. There are far more lucrative industries and satellite launch competitors are heavily subsidized by state governments. Its hard for SpaceX to compete while other companies can operate at a 100% loss forever.
2nd, your belief that SpaceX rockets are powerful is laughable. NASA's own SLS launch platform doesn't even include SpaceX. SpaceX does not have the capability to land on the moon. It can't build a space station and can't retrieve a semi truck's worth of payload back from space. The Falcon 9 Heavy should lift 120K lbs to Low Earth Orbit vs 260K lbs on the 50 year old Saturn V. Oh, and Lockheed and Boeing have long already achieved any record Space X is going for. More appropriately I should say Boeing has bought every company who have already achieved those records. But hey, if Elon tells you something you must believe it, so pay whatever is needed to get SpaceX stock when it IPO's. His Twitter feeds are all the research you need.
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
Wow Teddy, seems like a struck a nerve. Normally you're the more level headed out the bunch of loons that invest in Tesla for the craziest of reasons (look a few comments down, you''ll see what I mean). I'll rev my V8 until your children's ears and noses bleed if it makes me happy. In fact, I'll let my F-250's engine idle all night while I sleep just so it can be warm in the morning. Happy now?
I love Telsa stockholders interest in Gen III. A technology not out yet, with unseen returns or performance, yet you'll all spend a fortune on Tesla stock now, based on what could happen in a future so full of unknowns. For what its worth, I'm not anti EV, just anti Tesla. Right now Tesla stock is hot air and Elon Musk is an ego maniac who you guys seem to blindly worship.
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
Neil...for a fellow conservative, your understanding of the free market seems a little more left of center. So lets say Saudi Arabia runs dry tomorrow and the only oil left in the planet cost $15 a gallon. For the short term, I'll be stuck with some gas sucking cars that will drop dramatically in value and a Nissan Leaf or Chevy Volt will become a better proposition for me then it is now. I'm not going to sprint for a $100K car just yet because even at $15 a gallon, it would be hard to justify. The auto industry will quickly respond and in about 5 years I'll be able to drive cars that run on everything from electricity to fuel cells, to vegetable oil. Tesla would probably still go broke, since the economy would collapse and six figure cars would be the last thing selling.
Kinda reminds me of when people were running diesels off vegetable oil. It was a great idea until everybody caught on, and now used vegetable oil is impossible to fine and cost more than diesel.
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
Neil, there's nothing wrong with being considered an economy brand. If the feds really want to promote EV ownership, handing out cash for rich boy toys seems a bit unnecessary. They should cap it the credit for cars under $40K. This would be the equivalent of offering a tax credit on a yachts with sails vs diesel engines.
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
Teddy- As usual you bring up good points, however the safety of a Tesla I wouldn't quite count on just yet. Boeing I'm sure by now wishes they never heard of lithium ion and Airbus just dropped it altogether. Dell and the Chevy Volt can tell you you're basically sitting on a reactor that cannot be stopped once compromised and the FAA won't even allow lithium ion to be transported in the cargo hold of a plane.
For point #2, why should you plop down six figures for a car that is basically their beta tester as you've pretty much described it? The first Mercedes may not have been a winner by today's standards, but it held its own back in its day (was there even other cars back in its day?). So yes, if I'm paying $100K I expect it to already be on par with big companies.
Point 3 you may be onto something as large companies have old union legacy cost which I'm sure is coming to Tesla if it chooses to stay in CA. The benefit right now is that its too young to have any legacy cost.
For Point 4, big auto companies have more capital to throw away on other tech that may or may not work out. Telsa is all EV because it can't afford to be everywhere at once. That doesn't make it better. As far as making buses, boats, planes, and trains, their technology is way too constrained for that. Making an EV semi or even pickup will weigh tonnes more than an ICE just because it will have to lug its own weight, plus tow at a decent highway speed, up mountains, in the cold, and for long distances, and with a less patient clientel for recharging stations, plus the weight of its own batteries (which have to be bigger than needed to prevent damaging the battery on deep discharges). Keep in mind as batteries age, their range decrease as well. The best range you'll ever get is the day they are made. They by design start breaking down from there.
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
carlkoo- from what you describe, it sounds like you cheaped out and got the 6 cyl Panamera. I've driven the Panamera GTS and there's no way you wouldn't be impressed by the same acceleration and handling only with that throaty V8 sound! However, I have driven cars with similiar performance at a much cheaper price. Its true your Panamera has a cheap small touchscreen that would be blown away by Kia or Ford these days, however your Panamera also has actual buttons to do all the work without navigating a series of menus. That's where Tesla cheaped out. Rolls Royce doesn't even want to use a tacky touchscreen so they hide it behind a clock when not in use. Judging by what you consider modern, you really should look at some of the new Ford and Kia products.
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
Teddy, you bring up valid points and seem to have a decent sense of the technology involved. However, I can't help but notice not one big car company wants to take Telsa up on this market just yet. The Volt isn't considered a successful idea by most standards, yet its the model that pretty much all other car companies seem to want to copy, with the exception of much lower EV range of course. Just my personal opinion of course, but the plug in hybrid seems to make more technological and economic sense. Lugging around extra batteries and creating one's own infrastructure just to cure range anxiety seems like a waste. So there's a supercharger station in Milfred CT I've recently learned. What happens if 1000 people in New York have a Tesla next year and want to go see their family in Boston next Christmas and needs to use the same station? Is Tesla supposed to make multiple supercharger stations at each stop everywhere commuters will more than likely plan their trip? What happens when you plan your trip counting on the supercharger and find that when you get there its got a line 4 cars deep or its out of order? Or you can throw on a generator and call it good.
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
I have no doubt that a Model S is quick and without a gearshift, probably would be pretty formidable on a drag race. However top speed is limited to 130mpg (slightly above a minivan, your Panamera is about 175mph or so) which would kill you at a road course where you'll get passed on straightaways at over 160mph. A long enough road course would drain the freaking battery while trying to drive the Model S that hard. The most important thing missing from an EV is the engine noise. I might even consider a Model S if they offered it in V8.
I don't know what you mean by a button compromising vs being a desirable feature. I admit the Panamera's button's are a bit busy, I assume you don't need to navigate a menu to open the sunroof though.
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
First off, since you have no idea what the overhead cost are for a rocket launch, your simple statement of "billions" doesn't mean much. There are far more lucrative industries and satellite launch competitors are heavily subsidized by state governments. Its hard for SpaceX to compete while other companies can operate at a 100% loss forever.
2nd, your belief that SpaceX rockets are powerful is laughable. NASA's own SLS launch platform doesn't even include SpaceX. SpaceX does not have the capability to land on the moon. It can't build a space station and can't retrieve a semi truck's worth of payload back from space. The Falcon 9 Heavy should lift 120K lbs to Low Earth Orbit vs 260K lbs on the 50 year old Saturn V. Oh, and Lockheed and Boeing have long already achieved any record Space X is going for. More appropriately I should say Boeing has bought every company who have already achieved those records. But hey, if Elon tells you something you must believe it, so pay whatever is needed to get SpaceX stock when it IPO's. His Twitter feeds are all the research you need.
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
I love Telsa stockholders interest in Gen III. A technology not out yet, with unseen returns or performance, yet you'll all spend a fortune on Tesla stock now, based on what could happen in a future so full of unknowns. For what its worth, I'm not anti EV, just anti Tesla. Right now Tesla stock is hot air and Elon Musk is an ego maniac who you guys seem to blindly worship.
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
Kinda reminds me of when people were running diesels off vegetable oil. It was a great idea until everybody caught on, and now used vegetable oil is impossible to fine and cost more than diesel.
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
For point #2, why should you plop down six figures for a car that is basically their beta tester as you've pretty much described it? The first Mercedes may not have been a winner by today's standards, but it held its own back in its day (was there even other cars back in its day?). So yes, if I'm paying $100K I expect it to already be on par with big companies.
Point 3 you may be onto something as large companies have old union legacy cost which I'm sure is coming to Tesla if it chooses to stay in CA. The benefit right now is that its too young to have any legacy cost.
For Point 4, big auto companies have more capital to throw away on other tech that may or may not work out. Telsa is all EV because it can't afford to be everywhere at once. That doesn't make it better. As far as making buses, boats, planes, and trains, their technology is way too constrained for that. Making an EV semi or even pickup will weigh tonnes more than an ICE just because it will have to lug its own weight, plus tow at a decent highway speed, up mountains, in the cold, and for long distances, and with a less patient clientel for recharging stations, plus the weight of its own batteries (which have to be bigger than needed to prevent damaging the battery on deep discharges). Keep in mind as batteries age, their range decrease as well. The best range you'll ever get is the day they are made. They by design start breaking down from there.
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]
Electric Vehicles Have Tons Of Upside, Tesla Lacks Performance Metrics [View article]