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donnyparks

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  • Graphite: A Way To Profit From The Move To Electric Vehicles [View instapost]
    Calling people pumpers because they do not agree with you and find holes in your stories. I guess I am a pumper to you then. I refer to myself as a person who likes to go by the facts, but that is my own opinion.

    During my DD I have seen prices all over the map for different graphite's. I defer to what the companies are saying as they have done the research and are taking the liability by posting it in their presentations and NR's.

    From Zenyatta Presentation

    -Synthetic (>99%): $7,000 - $20,000/tonne

    http://bit.ly/1aeXvye

    From Northern Graphite Presentation

    -Spherical graphite sells for $6-8,000 per tonne if coated, average
    Chinese export price for uncoated, $4,000 per tonne

    http://bit.ly/1aeXwCq

    “The implication that the Zenyatta deposit is similar to the Sri Lankan deposits is not supported by the drill core samples, or the micrograph images shown on the Zenyatta site”

    We have already gone over this with your last article but we shall again go over this.

    I guess a world renowned Lab and Dr. Conly do not know what they are talking about?

    They have seen, touched, examined, studied the ZEN graphite and have come to some of the following conclusions.

    “(TSXV : ZEN) is pleased to provide results from an independent mineralogical study of drill core samples from the newly discovered Albany Graphite Deposit located near Hearst in north-eastern Ontario. The following significant observations were made:
    • Flake sizes of coarse, medium and fine ranging from 50 to greater than 300 microns (-270 to +40 mesh size)
    • Characterized as a magmatic hydrothermal style of graphite mineralization (similar to the high value Sri Lankan type deposits)
    • Graphite represents essentially all of the total reported Carbon assay values (i.e. Carbon related to carbonate is less than 1%)
    Aubrey Eveleigh, President and CEO stated “Zenyatta management considers these latest results to be very important, especially the range in flake size, which includes the high value coarse flake. Coarse flake graphite is greater than 175 microns (or +80 mesh) in size. Flake size and purity are key parameters in establishing the potential value and marketability of any graphite product derived from the Albany Graphite Deposit. The Company is planning to conduct metallurgical testing of the graphite zones and carry out a more aggressive drilling campaign to determine the full extent of the deposit”.
    The mineralogical report was prepared by Dr. Andrew Conly, Ph.D. of Lakehead University Mineralogy and Experimental Laboratory (“LUMINX”) in Thunder Bay, Ontario. The petrographic observations were from four samples of the graphite-rich breccia in zone #2 of drill hole Z11-4F1.”

    Please do tell what you see on the photos of the SEM’s on ZEN website.
    We know what Dr. Conly has seen by examining them.

    “It is quite possible that a significant portion is “amorphous” graphite, which sells for about $800/tonne”

    Again with the unsubstantiated comments. You must know Mickey Fulp AKA Kingsbay.

    Here is interview with Aubrey refuting what Mickey Fulp stated and setting some facts straight.

    In the interview below, INN Senior Editor Andrew Topf asks Aubrey Eveleigh, Zenyatta’s CEO, to clarify the geology of the Albany discovery and how the company plans to process the graphite to nearly 100-percent purity.

    GIN: On your website you describe the Albany deposit as a “vein-type graphite breccia.” How is this deposit different from other graphite deposits that have been found in the world?

    Aubrey Eveleigh: What we’ve discovered is a hydrothermal, or a vein style. We prefer to use hydrothermal because vein suggests a smaller body when in fact what we have is a large breccia pipe with intersections of 200 to 300 meters. We’ve been referring to it as hydrothermal. That’s volcanic in origin, derived from the upper mantle of the earth, whereas flake or amorphous is sedimentary in origin. It’s derived from organic material. It’s a totally different style, formed differently, a totally different geological deposit.

    GIN: Can you also distinguish between this deposit and Sri Lankan8 vein graphite, which your deposit has often been compared to?

    AE: The Sri Lankan is formed in the same manner, it is hydrothermal, but they refer to it as “vein style.” It is volcanic in nature, except the Sri Lankan vein is very narrow; they’re mining a vein that is 5 to 10 centimeters wide, whereas what we’ve intersected is 200 to 300 meters wide.

    GIN: It’s a different thickness.

    AE: It’s a different size. We have a breccia, they have strictly a vein. Now we do have some veins in the system, but for the most part it’s a breccia pipe. So think of it like a kimberlite pipe where you find diamonds9. They come from the upper mantle. It’s much like that.

    GIN: You say that the vein is ultra-high purity at 99.96-percent carbon, but the drill results only show 5 to 7 percent carbon; how do you account for that discrepancy?

    AE: It’s not a discrepancy. When you drill and you test for the grade, it comes out at 5 percent because what you’re testing is all the material in here. You cut it, you sample it, you send it in for analysis and you’re also diluting it with the granitic clasts that are in the breccia pipe. The key is not the grade on the front end, it’s the purity on the back end. When we put that through a metallurgical test, and we’ve done this on several occasions at SGS Lakefield, we put in the 5-percent grade, we grind and we do a flotation and a caustic bake. A caustic bake is sodium hydroxide. It’s not an acid as some people are suggesting; it’s sodium hydroxide, 25 percent by weight, and we can recycle that material. After you go through that process it comes out at 99.99 percent. What I’ve been told is that we’re the only company globally that can use caustic bake to get to 99.99 percent. I’m getting it third hand from a good source and we haven’t confirmed that, but I’ve been told that.

    GIN: I’ve been told by geologists that graphite can be easily purified using acid leaching. Is that not true?

    AE: Yes. You can upgrade flake thermally and with acid. It’s a little more expensive. When somebody says that they can do that I would simply ask, “what is the cost?” We know from our processing that we can do it with a caustic bake fairly cheaply.

    GIN: You released some beneficiation test results in April that show that high-purity graphite can be produced using the caustic baking leach process. Can you describe that process in a little more detail? Secondly, do you have any estimates as to the cost? You mentioned that acid leaching is expensive; so do you have any cost numbers you can share with us?

    AE: When a flake graphite deposit talks about leaching, they’re usually using hydrofluoric acid. Now, we don’t use that — hydrofluoric acid is a pretty dangerous material and it’s very expensive. That’s related to the infrastructure that you have to set up because you have to set up an entire safety infrastructure. In our case, we’re using sodium hydroxide. It’s safer. It’s a base, not an acid. We use 25 percent by weight, and we can recycle the material. It’s much cheaper and obviously we’ve got extremely high grades from it, and with good recoveries.

    GIN: Are you able to compare it? Like you say, it’s cheaper, but how much cheaper? Can you give us an indication?

    AE: I can’t throw numbers because we haven’t done a prefeasibility or an economic assessment yet. As you know, the Ontario Securities Commission does not allow us to talk about economics and numbers without going through that process.

    GIN: Fair enough. Your critics have said that the graphite at Albany can’t compete with synthetic graphite which, as you know, commands the highest price per tonne. How do you respond to that criticism?

    AE: I don’t know what they’re talking about exactly, which application?

    GIN: On your website you say you can compete with synthetic graphite, but that has been questioned, so I just wondered what your response to that criticism is.

    AE: The first thing you’ve got to do when you have a graphite deposit is determine the purity. That’s the first step. We’ve determined the purity and it’s extremely high grade, high purity; we can get to 99.99. The next step is to determine the properties of the graphite, which we’re doing right now. We’re actually doing it in a couple of universities in Canada, and we should have that information in the following weeks. Depending on the specs of your graphite, it will go into various applications, and that’s yet to be determined. But for someone to say now, without knowing what the specs of our graphite is, that it couldn’t be applied to high-purity synthetic applications is wrong. How do they know that? On what basis are they saying that?

    GIN: I think the criticism has been over this percentage issue, of whether you’re able to actually bring it up to the purity that you’re suggesting.

    AE: We’ve proven that. I mean that was already proven by SGS Lakefield. Why would somebody question that? We’ve already released that information.

    GIN: If you listen to the interview with Mickey Fulp, that was questioned.

    AE: Yes, but I don’t think you should take that as gospel. There were so many wrongs in that interview — I’m here to correct that. For one, he referred to our deposit as amorphous, which is totally wrong. It’s a sedimentary process; we’re volcanic and hydrothermal. The other thing that was said in that interview is that we use acid. That’s totally wrong. We don’t use acid. It’s a base, sodium hydroxide. The other thing I think he said was it’s “infrastructurally challenged.” Anybody that goes around the world to look at mining projects would find that the infrastructure that’s around us is probably some of the best you can find. You can see that on our website and in our presentation.


    Amazing how we have all these “experts” out there that can do write ups but twist everything for their own benefit. Lye or distort the facts.

    Take Care
    Don
    Sep 7 09:08 AM | 2 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • Graphite: A Way To Profit From The Move To Electric Vehicles [View instapost]
    So now all you need to do to reach what you call "battery grade" is to reach a purity of "The specifications for Li-ion battery graphite usually require 99.5+% purity"

    Here are some comments in your last article slamming ZEN
    "I don't see anywhere in the published information where it states that Zenyatta graphite, purified to 99.97%, has the particle size and shape suitable for use in a Li-ion battery, or has been accepted for use by a battery manufacturer, or has even been tested for use in a battery.
    As I stated in the article - "to believe the Zenyatta story, you have to believe that electric vehicles with lithium ion batteries will capture a significant portion of the automobile market, and that Zenyatta can process their graphite to battery grade specifications at costs which are significantly lower than the processing costs of rival suppliers"
    At this time, both of those assumptions are speculative "

    In this article you talk about how all of the above companies need to use acid leach to reach above 99.5% for some of their product. With this you say they can move into the market.

    So if they can, why do you say you need to "believe the ZEN story" for them to be able too?

    ZEN has already proven they can get
    "In all trials the final purity values were >99.97% C and up to 99.99% C in many cases, regardless of initial carbon grades."

    This is from
    "The entire 170 metre graphite zone from drill hole 5 was used for this testing."

    Their process is
    "All trials using a simple caustic baking leach process conclusively demonstrated that an ultra-high purity graphite product with >99.97% Carbon (“C”) can be produced from the Albany graphite deposit. The process was successfully applied to a variety of graphite concentrate samples that had initial carbon grades in the range of 46 – 90% using conventional flotation techniques"

    ZEN's particle size
    "Flake sizes of coarse, medium and fine ranging from 50 to greater than 300 microns (-270 to +40 mesh size)"

    So from all of this it is clear to me that ZEN's process to get to 99.99% Cg will be much cheaper and much more environmentally safer than all of the above mentioned companies.
    With this and the tonnage they have already proven up, even if they sold at same prices as these above companies, ZEN would be the most profitable company.

    Thank you for showing that these flake companies, whom you think are worth investing in, are far behind ZEN.

    Makes my investment decision to be in ZEN even more derisked

    Take Care
    Don
    Sep 5 07:14 AM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • There Are Better Bets Than Zenyatta For Graphite [View article]
    Here is another good read

    8 chapters, once open the chapters should show up down left side, click on them to scroll through
    Very large document and takess a while to open each chapter.
    Lots of pictures of SEM which are awesome.
    The RFL is graphite from Sri Lanka.
    http://bit.ly/14Jv4CI
    Aug 1 07:47 PM | Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • There Are Better Bets Than Zenyatta For Graphite [View article]
    Hi Cigunlimited5
    My previous post on Nuclear shows Sri Lankan graphite being used instead of synthetic.
    Flake companies have the big cost to try to get to >99.5% by acid leaching to begin with. ZEN does not.
    After that the processing costs would be the same for both.
    So Flake would never be cheaper than ZEN Hydrothermal.
    You will see that even Sri Lankan and CCB have to use Acid Leach to get ride of their impurites to be able to get above 99.5%.
    Synthetic has the big cost with the process and high energy use to make it. Synthetic has many different "grades" depending on coke and pitch used, depends on application they want it for. Price range varies alot depending on quality of Synthetic.

    Take Care
    Don
    Jul 28 06:27 AM | Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • There Are Better Bets Than Zenyatta For Graphite [View article]
    Just wanted to add from this paper which is a very good read so I suggest getting it.
    "The Canadian Mineralogist
    Vol. 48, pp. 1373-1384 (2010)
    DOI : 10.3749/canmin.48.5.1373"

    Here is a Quote from it

    "The Bogala (B) and Kahatagaha–Kolongaha (K)
    mines are situated respectively, 45 km southwest and 32
    km north–northwest of Kandy, in the Wanni Complex.
    This vein graphite is well known for its high purity
    and high crystallinity. The mines have been in operation
    since 1870–1880, with a maximum of exploitation
    of over 30,000 tonnes per annum during the period
    1900–1920. The estimated reserves of graphite are
    respectively 26,000 and 50,000 tonnes, with total
    inferred reserves of about 400,000 tonnes. The B mine
    is 370 m deep, and the K mine about 650 m deep. These
    two mines are still in operation."

    Estimated Reserves of 26,000 and 50,000 tonnes, not much left to mine.
    It also talks about "chasing" the Veins.

    "The B and K graphite deposits are of vein type, in
    the form of fissures (Fig. 1), fractures or cavities. The
    veins cross-cut the high-grade gneissic rocks and are
    generally irregular in disposition, with many branches
    (or subveins). They may be considered as vein swarms,
    similar to dyke swarms. These graphite veins are
    hydrothermal
    and of fissure type, emplaced into a late
    system of joints within the core of antiformal structures"


    "Their lengths vary from some meters to several
    tens of meters, and their thicknesses vary from a few
    mm to several tens of cm. Veins with a thickness of more
    than 5 cm are productive"

    Their impurites which ZEN does not have hece the ease to get to 99.99%

    "Hydrothermal minerals such as
    pyrite, chalcopyrite, calcite, quartz, apatite, biotite may
    be found within the graphite"

    Best sample they were able to use was 99.1%, big differences within the graphite. ZEN's is all the same.

    TABLE 1. AVERAGE CHEMICAL COMPOSITION AND AMOUNT
    OF THE RHOMBOHEDRAL PHASE IN FOUR SAMPLES
    OF DIFFERENT MORPHOLOGIES FROM THE BOGALA
    AND KAHATAGAHA–KOLONGAHA MINES
    ______________________...
    C % S % CaO % SiO2 % Fe2O3 % R/H %
    ______________________...
    BCFR 93.1 0.01 0.82 0.18 0.10 32
    KCFR 97.9 0.01 0.011 0.11 0.43 -
    BCSF 95.9 0.19 0.001 0.10 1.06 13.5
    KCSF 97.4 0.01 0.002 0.45 0.07 -
    BNPG 96.2 0.01 0.010 0.08 0.21 23
    KNPG 97.9 0.01 0.008 0.13 0.22 16
    BSSF 98.2 0.01 0.19 0.25 0.15 14
    KSSF 99.1 0.01 0.004 0.05 0.06 21
    ______________________...
    Note that the morphology of graphite i s coded according to location
    (Balasooriya et al. 2 002). The s amples from t he B ogala mines are
    prefixed with B, and those from Kahatagaha–Kolongaha are prefixed with
    K. Morphological types: CFR: coarse flakes of radially disposed graphite,
    CSF: coarse striated and flaky graphite, NPG: needle and platy graphite,
    SSF: shiny, slippery and fibrous graphite.


    Take Care
    Don
    Jul 28 06:27 AM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • There Are Better Bets Than Zenyatta For Graphite [View article]
    I am well aware of how Synthetic Graphite is produced. You obviously have not read and understood the document I attached.
    I guess these guys have no clue what they are talking about either.
    Here is a quote from it.

    “The process used for the production of Nuclear graphite is similar to that used to produce conventional graphite, the raw materials being petroleum coke and pitch. The initial mixing involves melting the pitch and forming blocks by molding or extrusion. The raw materials are chosen such that they graphitise easily. To carbonise the binder the molded or extruded body is heat treated in an inert atmosphere at up to about 1000^C. As a second stage the baked carbon is graphitised at about 3000^C. The process may also involve a high temperature gaseous purification treatment to bring the concentration of neutron absorbers down to acceptable levels. The production cycle takes about 2 months”

    And another quote

    “A new method for producing reactor graphite is now described.
    Nuclear purity highly crystalline natural graphite powder, FP of company Kropfmuhl, is used as a primary starting material. A phenol formaldehyde resin dissolved in alcohol serves as a binder. The components are first mixed at room temperature and then either silicon or zirconium oxide powder is added to the graphite resin premix. This mixture is then molded I a two stage process.
    In the first step spheres are molded semi isostatically in a rubber die at a relatively high pressure of about 100 MN/m2. Afterwards the spheres are crushed to form granules with an average diameter of about 1mm. The average granule contains about 1 million isotropically arranged graphite particles of the original graphite powder. For further improvement of isotropic behaviour of molded bodies the company Kropfmuhl has developed a natural graphite powder of the same origin however with almost spherical grain size.
    For the second step the isotropic granulate is hot molded into graphite bodies in the plastic temperature range of the binder resin at relatively low pressures of about 12 MN/m2. To enhance the moulding a lubricant and air displacement agent is incorporated into the granulate.
    To carbonise the resin the “green” graphite bodies are heated to about 800^C in an inert gas atmosphere. A hot-gas ventilator creating an internal convection sucks off the argon top down and blows it up again in between the guide tube and the heated furnace lining. The compositon products formed during the carbonisation condense in the lower furnace region and are removed fro mthe carbonisation process immediately after their formation. The heating and cooling cycle takes 24h and is therefore very short as compared to the established processes.

    “The reactor grade graphite can also be used in non- nuclear applications such as chlorine alkali electrolysis or for thermal electrodes”


    Also have a look in the document at Fig. 2, X-ray Diffraction pattern of Petroleum Coke graphitised at temperatures between 1700^C and 3100^C compared with Natural Graphite.

    In case you are not aware, the company Kropfmuhl from Germany used Sri Lankan Vein “hydrothermal” high purity graphite for this as they are the main buyer of it.
    Again it comes down to tonnage, Sri Lanka does not have tonnage to be able to supply the high purity >99.5%.
    Flake cannot compete as it costs too much to use Acid Leach, many times, to get high enough purity.
    It all comes down to cost to produce and tonnage along with high purity >99.5%.
    ZEN has all this, this is why the stock price has been doing nothing but going up.
    For the last few months we have seen many brokerages and funds buying into ZEN and taking positions.
    Once SP over $5. Many more funds will be allowed to buy it as per their rules of not buying stocks below $5.

    Take Care
    Don
    Jul 26 09:32 AM | 2 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • There Are Better Bets Than Zenyatta For Graphite [View article]
    The market for Sri Lankan lump graphite is about 4,000 tonnes per year. One of the three mines in Sri Lanka is closed because there is not enough demand for the product

    http://bit.ly/13fA3LR

    I am surprised with what you are saying after reading this article. It is quite obvious that this mine is low grade and not profitable. Big difference between 95% and 99.5% and above
    “It sold just 10 tonnes of high quality, vein graphite, 95% C in hand mined lumps (+1 mesh) since reopening”
    “preliminary license, valid only for nine months, which limits them to produce merely 20 tonnes a year”
    “800-1,000 tpa but is lacking the investment required for the purchase of essential machinery and equipment used for drilling and extraction purposes at the underground operation”

    The selling price of Sri Lankan lump graphite in 2012 was $1990/tonne (ref. US Geological survey).
    If you would check further you would see this is for average 95%. What is the price for 99.5% and above?

    Comparisons to Sri Lankan graphite are meaningless, because the market for that material can never support large scale mining operations.
    Exactly, they can not open pit mine, they have to follow the veins with stope’s. Very labour intensive.
    This does not mean there is not a market for 99.5% and above.

    World inferred resources of graphite are over 800 million tonnes (enough for 800 years of supply at today's consumption rate) - (Ref US Geological survey) - There is no shortage.
    This refers to Flake Graphite. Low grade, that to get to 99.5% requires acid leaching and is very cost prohibitive and environmental damaging.
    ZEN does not have these issues.

    The major demand driver for natural graphite in the future is expected to be Li-ion batteries. The natural graphite material used for Li-ion batteries is flake graphite of 99.9% fixed carbon purity, with a spheroidal particle shape. Material losses from creating the spheroidal particle shape can range from 30 to 70% depending on the starting particle size. Losses from medium and large size particles are less than losses from small particles, so the medium and large flakes command higher prices. It is difficult to find prices for spheroidized battery grade graphite because most sales are private deals between buyer and seller, there is no open market. However, I have seen references in the region of $4,000 to $6,000/tonne, which would place the value before spheroidization at $2,000 to $3,000/tonne assuming an average 50% loss.
    That is very nice to think demand in the future is expected to be for batteries. We will take that into consideration in about 5-15 years. Markets now is what ZEN is aiming for.
    Even if they compete in this market for batteries, they will be the lowest cost producer by already having 99.99% without having to acid leach. If their material needs machining, they are farther ahead in cost savings already.

    Zenyatta implies that their graphite could replace synthetic graphites which are selling in the range of $7,000 to $20,000/tonne.
    Yes, I believe they would know their product better than any of us. They have done testing on it and have more tests going on as of now.

    I have spent many hours searching for references, and I have not found any applications outside of Li-ion batteries where natural graphite competes with synthetic graphite. The high volume uses for synthetic graphite are in molded products (including arc furnace electrodes) which are manufactured from synthetic graphite for strength rather than purity.
    Please answer this question.
    Why do we have Synthetic graphite?
    Once you find the answer to this question, you will have the answer to your above paragraph.


    As you correctly state, there are many industrial uses for graphite. There are many different products with different uses and different specifications. However, I have yet to find a specific end use which could not be fulfilled by other lower cost mining operations, and which sells in sufficient quantities to justify development of this property.
    Up till now there is no lower cost mining operation to replace Synthetic because flake can not be used and Sri Lanka high purity >99.5% does not have the tonnage.

    Perhaps some of the Zenyatta fans on this site could enlighten me. I think we are looking for an application that requires high purity (>99.9%C), sells for high prices (>$7,000/tonne, for the material from the mine, after processing but before specialized product manufacturing) and has a market of 50,000 tonnes per year or more
    Here is the article I referenced in an early post
    http://bit.ly/15jjfa8
    Quote from it “The reactor grade graphite can also be used in non- nuclear applications such as chlorine alkali electrolysis or for thermal electrodes”
    Thermal Electrodes are the largest graphite market, approx. 60% of entire market.


    I came across this article today:

    http://bit.ly/13fA2HK

    It is not difficult to figure out which company it is referring to

    Please enlighten us to which companies this article is referring too?
    If you are suggesting ZEN, then you need to talk to its author Laura Syrett. You can also contact Simon Moores, he is the Data Manager at Industrial Minerals. We have had many discussion about ZEN, and I can assure you, the article you have referenced has nothing to do with ZEN.

    One last note, when your article came out, ZEN was at $3.99
    It closed today at $4.94
    I feel sorry for anyone who has listened to you and the other bashers.
    Disclaimer, I started buying ZEN at .34 and 1/2 cents

    Take Care
    Don
    Jul 25 09:12 PM | 4 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • There Are Better Bets Than Zenyatta For Graphite [View article]
    I would like to post this comment from "Hoov" from aother discussion board.
    The second parts talks about CBB but can also be applied to Sri Lanka

    "I don't know how you figure that, 2guys. Narrow-vein mining typically generates a stope of not less than 1.8 metres width. That means the vein material is inevitably diluted by waste material simply to provide access to the ore. Assuming that they can perfectly follow the vein, and thus stay within that 1.8 metre stope withoud having to widen it to chase the vein, anything less than 9 cm vein width (on average) would be diluted to a head grade of 5%, or less. The muck is hand-sorted to get it back to the saleable grades, and let me tell you, much of it is well below 80% Cg. They call that grade dust.


    In contrast, the ZEN breccia material will be bulk mined, a far more efficient process, even if taken uderground, as the ore zones are quite extensive. That means there will be little to no dilution, i.e. the assay grade will roughly equal the mine head grade, about 5%.. With simple flotation, the hydrothermal material is separated from the brecciated granite and syenite country rock, yielding a concentrate of 46-90% Cg. That is the grade of the vein material, liberated from the breccia. The granite/syenite here is analogous to the wall rock diluting Sri Lankan vein muck.


    Try to compare like to like. Once concentrated, the Albany graphite is purified to 99.96% or better, no matter what was the original grade, with a caustic roast. In contrast, Sri Lankan graphite has a number of impurities, which are difficult to remove, as they are intercalated with the graphite cystals. In essence, the impurities are sandwiched between graphite layers, which protects those contaminants from exposure to acid or heat, as graphite is particularly resistant to both.
    Lar"


    "For the record, I'm invested in both CCB and ZEN, and I've used my scientific background to guide my due diligence with respect to both entities. I've edited GK's post to separate it into separate issues, which I would like to debate. But before I do, let me state my belief that this is not a zero sum game. Both companies can be extremely successful enterprises simultaneously. It is not a competition in which there must be a loser. Each one must show positive economics, or fail on their own merits. ZEN will not kill CCB, and neither will the inverse be true. So, let's stick to evidence, okay?

    1. I don't know where you got the idea that ZEN will have to go underground, let alone 100's of metres, to open a mine. I've spoken to many experienced mine engineers about the Albany deposit, and without exception, they have replied that a vertical pipe of the known dimensions presents an ideal, textbook exercise, opportunity to mine by open pit. The overburden is approx. 30 metres of glacial till, with approx. 10 metres of limestone lying unconformably on the breccia pipe. Based on my own modeling, I think the pit can operate for about 7 years, on the East pipe, before the economics shift to favour underground work. But that, too, will employ the most efficient underground methods, e.g. block caving, as the orebody is so large. In the meantime, they can begin to open a pit on the West pipe.

    2. The descriptive terminology for the Albany deposit was changed because people are not accustomed to thinking of vein systems with widths of say 150 m. There are certainly veins in the system, and I believe that lump sections are visible in the core. They've gone with new language to force people to step outside their preconceptions. The system is unique, and it's going to need a unique set of descriptive terms.

    3. The CCB samples reported to date are grab samples. They are inherently selective. They are not random by any stretch of the imagination. A geologist with a hammer picked the place to hit the exposed vein, and then picked the samples to send to the lab. Obviously, such samples would not include wall rock, right? They want to find out what's in the vein itself. In comparison, ZEN's grade is low because the core also samples the brecciated country rock. But after flotation (which drops the country rock), the concentrates (i.e. the vein material) grades 46-90%. That's the valid comparator to CCB's grab samples.

    4. CCB's Phase 2 is not likely to result in any dataset which can infer resources. Vein intersections do not give you tonnage estimates, except by extrapolating excessively. As to purity, there is no variable with greater economic consequence than purity. I'm in CCB before the purity results come back, but we already know what ZEN has.

    5. I'm a scientist, a chemist, so I'm going to use my professional judgment in this context. I know that you can accomplish anything you wish vis a vis purity, but the question is always at what cost. I know how to turn lead into gold, but I cannot do so economically. If you can't recover your costs of upgrading in the revenue generated by doing so, then it is for all intents and purposes not possible to upgrade the material. From an economic perspective, obviously. Any material CAN be chemically or physically upgraded, but that is a sophistic argument, as the cost if doing so will determine whether it happens or not.
    Secondly, there is no way that CCB is going to bring muck at 50-80% Cg out of their mine. Specialized equipment used in narrow-vein mining generally still requires a minimum stope width of 1.8 m. Let's generously assume that your vein is 30 cm wide. Your head grade is 30/180 X 80% = 18%, at best. And, for smaller veins or lower grades, that falls from there. How are you going to get your grade back? Flotation, probably, eh?
    Well, ZEN's going to float theirs to 46-90% Cg. Let's compare apples to apples. And then, in one further step, ZEN goes to 99.96+%. We don't know what CCB's upgraded purity is, yet. And I think these considerations underlie the differences in share price between the two.

    I'm looking at these ideas from my own sense of reality, and I appreciate that I may well have overlooked something important. I am invested here, but there are some significant de-risking events that need to happen before the SP forms that exponential run upwards that we're hoping for.
    Lar"
    Jul 23 08:46 AM | 2 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • There Are Better Bets Than Zenyatta For Graphite [View article]
    "A traditional leach process yielded a concentrate that assayed 99.2% Cg (100 % C). "
    This would be an Acid Leach Test not a Simple Leach Test like ZEN refers to.
    Zen's is a "simple caustic baking leach "
    Big difference having to use Acid leach. Big Costs and environmental issues. It also does not say how many times they had to run it through the Acid Leach test.
    Jul 23 08:24 AM | 3 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • There Are Better Bets Than Zenyatta For Graphite [View article]
    Kingsbay – why not give the full profile for Dr Conly instead of being selective for what you wish to pull out. I believe he is more than qualified to comment on Graphite. Please prove us wrong. SGS Lakefield has proven him correct.

    Personal Information
    Professional Associations
    • Regional Vice President - North America, Society for Geology Applied to Mineral Deposits (SGA)
    • Mineralogical Association of Canada (MAC)
    • Institute for Lake Superior Geology (ILSG)
    Awards
    • 2003 Jérôme H. Remick III Honourable Mention, Geological Association of Canada
    • 2000 Jérôme H. Remick III Gold Poster Award, GeoCanada 2000/Geological Association of Canada
    • 1999 & 2000 H.E. McKinstry Research Grant, Society of Economic Geologists
    • 1995 Jérôme H. Remick III Honourable Mention, Geological Association of Canada
    Research Interests
    I am an emerging expert in the fields of applied mineralogy, trace element geochemistry and isotope geochemistry, with application of these methods to understanding the origin(s) of metals and fluids responsible for the formation of magmatic-hydrothermal metal deposits and to mine site remediation. My research encompasses a wide variety of analytical instrumentation and methodologies including light microscopy, XRD, SEM-EDX, EMPA, FTIR, XRF, ICP-AES/MS, INAA, Leco infra-red, wet chemistry, stable isotopes, radiogenic isotopes and K-Ar geochronology. My research has also resulted in several collaborative projects (throughout Canada, USA, Mexico and France) with university researchers, government, and mining and exploration companies
    Ore genesis studies involve investigating the processes responsible for the formation of metallic ore deposits. My education and prior work experience has largely been centred on the study of sedimentary rock-hosted and volcanogenic massive sulphide deposits. Since starting my position at Lakehead University I have expanded my research to include Au and PGE deposits; since these deposits are more widely sought after in northernwestern Ontario. Much of my ore deposit research receives financial support from exploration companies and government agencies. My students and I are currently working on projects located in northwestern Ontario, Minnesota and Mexico


    You mention we do not know were these samples were taken and they were selectively done.

    From NR dated Feb 27, 2012 “The petrographic observations were from four samples of the graphite-rich breccia in zone #2 of drill hole Z11-4F1”

    Would you like them to also tell us at each location within the 67.5m that they took them?

    We have since received NR’s showing further results which show the deposit has same properties for the graphite everywhere so this would not matter.

    NR dated Oct 3, 2012 “Lakefield metallurgical test work of the Albany graphite material continues to develop a simple concentration and leaching process to produce an ultra-high purity (>99.0% C) graphite product. Again, mineralogical work shows the graphite material to be very simple and contains insignificant amounts of undesirable material. This confirms an earlier mineralogical report prepared by Dr. Andrew Conly, Ph.D. of Lakehead University”

    NR dated April 25, 2013 “All trials using a simple caustic baking leach process conclusively demonstrated that an ultra-high purity graphite product with >99.97% Carbon (“C”) can be produced from the Albany graphite deposit. The process was successfully applied to a variety of graphite concentrate samples that had initial carbon grades in the range of 46 – 90% using conventional flotation techniques. In all trials the final purity values were >99.97% C and up to 99.99% C in many cases, regardless of initial carbon grades.”

    And “Aubrey Eveleigh, President and CEO stated “Achieving these ultra-high purity carbon values at such an early stage from a simple and relatively inexpensive process is extraordinary. The graphite purification process is effective across a wide range of initial concentrate grades and particle sizes, producing ultra-high purity graphite with good recoveries. This is a very significant development for the Albany deposit and shows how easily the graphite material can be purified.”

    No idea what you are talking about saying my answer is silly. That is the difference between flake and Hydrothermal. Flake is sedimentary so is horizontal; Hydrothermal is derived from upper mantel, magma chamber. Too compare the two is false.
    Size of East pipe along is economical now.
    Jul 19 09:31 AM | 3 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • There Are Better Bets Than Zenyatta For Graphite [View article]
    Kingsbay, how do you explain another 3rd party, Dr Conly, from Lakehead University also coming up with same results as SGS Lakefield?
    I guess a world renowned Lab and Dr Conly do not know what they are talking about?
    They have seen, touched, examined, studied the ZEN graphite. You on the other hand have not even seen it yet you are an expert on it?

    Just you making the comment " the zone is showing itself to be vertical (not sub-horizontal like at Timcal's Lac des Iles mine " tells us that you have no idea and do not understand the difference between flake and Hydrothermal.

    You also need to hide behind a false identity. That says it all to me.

    http://bit.ly/18kOS4l

    (TSXV : ZEN) is pleased to provide results from an independent mineralogical study of drill core samples from the newly discovered Albany Graphite Deposit located near Hearst in north-eastern Ontario. The following significant observations were made:
    • Flake sizes of coarse, medium and fine ranging from 50 to greater than 300 microns (-270 to +40 mesh size)
    • Characterized as a magmatic hydrothermal style of graphite mineralization (similar to the high value Sri Lankan type deposits)
    • Graphite represents essentially all of the total reported Carbon assay values (i.e. Carbon related to carbonate is less than 1%)
    Aubrey Eveleigh, President and CEO stated “Zenyatta management considers these latest results to be very important, especially the range in flake size, which includes the high value coarse flake. Coarse flake graphite is greater than 175 microns (or +80 mesh) in size. Flake size and purity are key parameters in establishing the potential value and marketability of any graphite product derived from the Albany Graphite Deposit. The Company is planning to conduct metallurgical testing of the graphite zones and carry out a more aggressive drilling campaign to determine the full extent of the deposit”.
    The mineralogical report was prepared by Dr. Andrew Conly, Ph.D. of Lakehead University Mineralogy and Experimental Laboratory (“LUMINX”) in Thunder Bay, Ontario. The petrographic observations were from four samples of the graphite-rich breccia in zone #2 of drill hole Z11-4F1
    Jul 18 09:19 AM | 3 Likes Like |Link to Comment
  • There Are Better Bets Than Zenyatta For Graphite [View article]
    There are papers that show using Natural Hydrothermal graphite instead of Synthetic in Nuclear, in the paper it talks about using this Natural Graphite for arc furnace Electrodes.
    Google HTR2008-58026  
    Exert from it " The reator grade graphite can also be used in non- nuclear applications such as chlorine alkali electrolysis or for thermal electrodes"
    Jul 17 09:00 AM | 1 Like Like |Link to Comment
  • There Are Better Bets Than Zenyatta For Graphite [View article]
    Great post Chief!!!
    Jul 16 09:11 AM | 3 Likes Like |Link to Comment
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