nonunion guy

Pre-packaged Bankruptcy Is GM's Only Option - Barron's

Fcountry, you make some good points about unions being founded to pull people out of squalid and dangerous working conditions. The problem was that once that became dramatically better, the unions didn't stop, or even slow down, they accelerated their efforts to split the pie in their favor.

Here's the problem with that. If you have a willing, able workforce that will do a job for $15 an hour, and the union forces payment of $26 an hour plus $20 in benefit costs for that same job, then the company will inevitably suffer and decline every year, just as you have witnessed. You can't run a local plumbing company paying $50 an hour to plumbers, if other plumbers in the same town are working for $25...and doing fine at that rate, paying rent, buying cars and food, and perfectly content at that rate. The unions have created an artificial level of compensation that has nothing to do with the employment market. The results are what you see in the Big 3 right now.

You can rail at Toyota all you want, they are not forcing anyone to come to work. If they offer 20 jobs at $12 an hour and 700 people want the job, they should lower the wage. That's how it works, the employer's job is to pay what is needed to get a competent worker on board, and not more.


On Nov 30 04:33 PM Fcountry wrote:

> Homer 11
>
> [qoute] The unions are the cancer that eats out the heart of American
> industry. Their pernicious avarice has eventually sucked all of the
> life out of every industry they work at. They destroyed the American
> steel industry, and now they have brought about the eminent collapse
> of the Big-3 auto companies. Their workers must now learn what is
> the flip side of the juicy wages and benefits they have extorted
> over the years: job loss, pension reductions, and the black mark
> on their resumes when they go looking for that next job: "former
> union worker". I'll bet more than 75% will be passed on for employment
> because of that single fact.
>
> **********************...
> Sir,
>
> As you can tell I obviously disagree with you and I am suspecting
> that you probably have never done an honest "HARD DAYS Work" in your
> entire life. (Please feel free to correct me if I am mistaken.)<br/>
>
> Let me refer to a past commentary posted on this board...You may
> not appreciate it...but I hope that you at least take the time to
> read it.
> These are our jobs and retirements that we are fighting for..so please
> keep an open mind.
>
> **********************...
>
> 100 Years Later: With GM In Decline, Flint is Now a Service Economy
>
> paulk8756 and BioInvestor
>
> I am a retired GM employee...(I guess that is pretty obvious)...Let's
> go BACK in automotive history....Just WHY were those Unions even
> formed in the first place? Could it be because Ford used to hire
> "henchmen" to beat those who even talked of better working conditions?
> Are you even aware of what the working conditions used to be like?
> Would any of you work in sweat shops where you couldn't even go to
> the bathroom? One of the first thing that the Unions created was
> a better working environment...(wow... a 15 minute break every couple
> of hours..so you could go to the bathroom)...then some type of insurance
> due to the HAZARDS in working in such environments....( these things
> are taken for granted at this time...but they all had to be negotiated.)
>
> I started at GM in 1974...I diligently worked there for 31.5 years...during
> that time I received a torn rotary cuff (shoulder injury), a broken
> thumb, scalding from over 200 degree water....These are called Industrial
> Accidents..I have seen people mauled only to be drug off their job..and
> immediately replaced...just to keep the line going...How many "writers"
> have these types of accidents? How many "investors" would even consider
> working under these conditions?
>
> Now I must admit that the automotive industry has gotten MUCH better
> concerning Safety....MUCH better... But there was a time when things
> weren't so great.
>
> I started out making $7.00 per hour in 1974...and was up to about
> $26.00 per hour 30 years later... you do the math $ 19.00 divided
> by 30 equals$0.63 cents per hour per year raise. Are you saying that
> a person isn't worthy of a $0.63 an hour per year raise?
>
> When times were good we all made out but 15 years ago when things
> got touchy we all took pay freezes...all the employees figured out
> better build processes...we had to to stay alive....Did management
> take pay freezes? Yeah right....WE are all supposed to be working
> together...it is ALL OF OUR jobs at stake...
> Now take a look at GM management, take Roger Smith, for example,
> who darn near ran GM into the ground within a 3 year period...took
> MILLIONS in severance PLUS a 2 MILLION per year retirement package...then
> made it where it could never be done in the future. Hey that's really
> looking out for the company. (at that time the President of this
> Great US of America was only making $250,000 per year).
>
> If you will do your research....manpower is only about 4% ...I repeat
> 4% of the total cost of building a vehicle....The BIGGEST cost is
> parts "transportation&am... costs of getting the parts to the
> plants.
>
> So for those of you that are more than happy to sit back and blame
> the UNIONS...may I suggest that you do a little further research...you
> may be surprised what you may find.
>
> Dig DEEP ...very DEEP...learn what you are talking about before you
> criticize.
>
> I have over 31.5 years EXPERIENCE and I KNOW what I am talking about...I
> have lived it.
>
> Sincerely and respectfully,
>
> Fcountry
>
> Mon Jun 23rd 08:35 AM
> 100 Years Later: With GM In Decline, Flint is Now a Service Economy
>
>
> All of this was due to the Autoworkers being "overpaid" ? I'll BET
> those Autoworkers probably work a LOT harder and make a LOT less
> than the author of this article. So using Mark Perry's logic then
> Seeking Alpha could be in serious trouble and will probably have
> to move oversees.
> Mark Perry isn't stating the fact that those autoworkers have taken
> serious wage cuts/freezes to help out their companies. Is HE willing
> to do the same?
>
>
> Sincerely and respectfully,
>
> FC

Dow at 8000 Is Not Out of the Question

Nice call there....yes, we'll keep watching for 8,000, could it happen? Of course, so could 20,000, but right now this looks like exactly the wrong information. Keep in mind that we haven't yet had even one month of "negative growth" and the projections are for half a percent annual rate in the next two quarters, followed by a return to 2% or so. Of course, projections are no better than guesses, you can say, but it's important to note NO negative so far, just a lot of headlines about it.