Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
I'm sleeping sound again Don after your comment about ABAT'S L-ion Polymer batteries potentially either bursting into flames or exploding between riders legs in ABAT's ebikes. I found an article with Google about ABAT's Ebikes dated in June of 2009 that stated:
"Wuxi Zhongqiang's electric vehicles use ABAT's high-performance lithium iron phosphate batteries."
Wuxi Zhongqiang was apparently not doing particularly well and ABAT bought the company and renamed it "Wuxi Angell." I imagine under ABAT's management style Wuxi is doing fine financially. They recently obtained a 1.1M dollar order from at US company All-American Power for electric motorcycles.
"In a press release announcing the order Mr. Zhiguo Fu, CEO of ABAT, commented on the news:
"This new order is an example of management’s significant progress in expanding and servicing overseas customers. Entering the US market is a very important milestone for us and the renewal of orders from our current customer base in Europe, the Middle East and South East Asia only adds to the recognition our eco-friendly electric vehicles are receiving all around the world."
Mr. Zhiguo Fu, incidentally, purchased 1M shares common of ABAT on the open market in 2009 at average $2.65 a share and owns 10% of all common stock.
Lastly, there are persistent rumors over on Motley Fool that ABAT has a battery contract with Apple for the IPad. I imagine with the monster sales of that product that there are probably a lot of chinese battery makers with contracts from Apple :).
With widespread distribution of ABAT'S ebikes with several continents and recurring orders from many of them I am looking forward to their next earnings statement August 9, 2010.
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
Thanks John, but I was trying to ask tireman63 because be seems to know a lot about electrical demands in a stop start environment and maybe he would have some insight into lithium ion performance in stop start applications. It's way over my head.
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
Don Harmon whose knowledge of Lithium Ion batteries has often been helpful to us made some very bold statements yesterday about having a 20Ah Lithium Ion battery that he felt was better than Axion's technology, or maybe everyone's battery. I am not an engineer and I usually blow something when I fool with electric wires.
What do you make of the potential for his battery as described to meet the electrical demands of a standard automobile with stop start technology, cold or hot weather, with all the accessories running hard plus lights?
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
From the Peoples Republic of China to Main Street USA:
China's electric car maker BYD Auto is set to starting selling its electric car e6 in the United States later this year, and the BYD e6 is likely to be priced at about $40,000, People's Daily reported May 19.
On May 17, BYD Auto delivered 40 all-electric e6 cars to the Shenzhen-based Pengcheng Electric Taxi Company in southern Chinese province of Guangdong, making Shenzhen the first Chinese city to have electric taxis in service. BYD plans to put 100 e6 taxis on Shenzhen's roads by the end of June.
Meanwhile, preparations for the BYD e6's entry into the US market are well under way, said Xia Zhibing, general manager of BYD Auto. The newly established BYD North American sales headquarters in Los Angeles will sell the alternative-energy cars. The BYD e6 has passed all necessary tests in the US.
As an SUV-MPV crossover model developed by BYD, the e6 car measures 4,560mm x 1,822mm x 1,630mm, with a 2,830mm wheelbase, and has only five seats in the spacious car body to ensure passengers' comfort. It can run up to 300km (note: 186 Miles) on one charge. It has a start-up time of less than 10 seconds and its speed can peak at 140km/h (note: around 85 MPH)
The BYD e6 uses the eco-friendly rechargeable super-iron battery and starter battery. The super-iron battery can be charged in slow-mode with a 220V power adapter and a 3C adapter in fast charge, filled to 80 percent within 15 minutes.
The e6 electric car's entry into the US market this year will mark a historic moment for Warren Buffet-backed BYD. The selling price of $40,000 may drop after the car's production and sales increase.
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
Thanks Don! Good Luck. I am from Virginia and very supportive of your decision to build your facility in Danville, Va. I appreciate your time answering my many questions.
John said that with 20 million start stop vehicles on the road within a few years there would be plenty of business to go around, plus all the other applications (grid, UPS, RE) etc.
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
Sorry, but $400 wonder that could match Axion's solution as well as presumably compete with the other four players in the start-stop battery field was a huge surprise to me so my questions just keep bubbling out.
I won't go into John's sustainability issues regarding all the materials in a L-ion battery, I do not know enough about the field technically.
I will, however, bring up recycling as an issue, as well as the trade in value of lead acid batteries when you buy a new one. That is pretty standard with lead acid. However, I would presume your battery will not have any meaningful trade in value.
In addition, if something were to happen to your battery for whatever reason and someone were not close to a dealer to get another one of your batteries, they would be in a pickle. I presume the auto makers are going to let the driver shut off the start stop function if they want to. That would let them go buy a cheap lead acid if needed and keep on driving. That would not be the case with your battery.
Lastly, what about the lowest SOC issue within a lithoum ion battery - where one bad component spoils the whole barrel? Is that not an issue? When you said extrapolate out to 5-10 years, seems pointless with a three year, 3000 cycles warranty. I really would like to know if that's shallow cycles or full charge-discharge cycles.
I'll try to not post anymore on your battery. In any event, best of luck. There is going to be a big market and with any luck you'll snag something. Thanks for your help.
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
Don, I think Toyota is going to be a tough sell:
"Analysts note the auto maker (ie, Toyota) originally planned to bring the new version to market in 2008, but delayed the launch when management opted against switching to a Li-ion battery pack and decided to stick with NiMH."
I have read that Asian producers of L-ion batteries will always be the low cost L-ion producers. What's going to stop them from creating a product similar to yours at much lower cost?
Plus you would have to compete with the other bigger companies in the US that make the same product you do with or without a license? Looks to me like you would be in a very cost competitive environment with your technology.
I also have to wonder why in all my reading I have not seen a lot of references to using L-ion as a SLI battery replacement or for stop-start. Can you point me to some information resources that have more data than I am finding in John's articles or comment sections? I am sure you would be aware of them.
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
Yes, I asked that question, got some answers that said forget it, then you posted a very thoughtful response. Thank you. If the filling station got its Nat Gas from a pipeline versus a heavy truck rumbling in with gas that would be a savings also. I recognize the BEV would not need fuel trucked in either, but its got the same problem the nat gas vehicle has trying to find a refill unless he finds a friendly electric plug in terms of range.
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
Thanks Don. What about the environmental extremes in temperature for automobiles? I am also still wondering if anyone else has been visible promoting their lithium Ion battery in whatever flavor as a battery for stop start applications in automobiles? Are there any ongoing tests by auto oems of L-ion for this purpose among your competitors? Are technical papers and test results being presented using L-ion at industry conferences? Are any vendors displaying Lithium Ion products for stop start at trade shows?
Incidentally, when the engine shuts off what about all the accessories in the vehicle? Say an SUV with a DVD running, sound system blasting, all the lights, A/C system, etc? How will the Ah cut in half deal with that?
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
481086 (everytime I type that I think of Maxwell Smart) As Patton would say, were he in Detroit, "All real Americans love to punch 450 Horses and blow the doors off everyone on the road! When you see some effeminate european sitting beside you at a stop light in his 60 horsepower 2 passenger ecobling after you just pulled your hands out of the goo cleaning your piston rings, Well, you'll know what to do!"
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
I was referring to the Maxell Supercapacitor but my important questions to you were:
Are your products being tested by any automotive OEM's? Are you getting any inquiries? Has anyone been promoting Lithium Ion in whatever flavor as a for stop start battery for automobiles? Are there any ongoing tests by auto oems of L-ion for this purpose with your products or among your L-ion competitors? Is some industry guru presenting technical papers and test results on the topic at industry conferences? Are any vendors displaying products for this purpose at trade shows?
Your post seems to say your battery is equal or better than Axion's and perhaps everybody else's lead-acid battery for stop start applications? The chart John provided here seekingalpha.com/artic... was way beyond 3000 cycles. Are your cycles full discharge cycles or stop start cycles?
Any of those questions you can answer would be very worthwhile to me and all the readers on this topic.
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
So you are saying your battery is equal or better than Axion's and perhaps everybody else's lead-acid battery for stop start applications? The chart John provided here seekingalpha.com/artic... was way beyond 3000 cycles. Are your cycles full discharge cycles or stop start cycles?
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
Two devices doubles the failure points. Is Maxwell's solution a simple two terminal device with the supercapacitor within the battery?
With respect to your stop start battery - how does it compare to lead acid in terms of total energy (which I may not be expressing properly) such as when you accidentally leave the lights on before it goes dead?
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
"Wuxi Zhongqiang's electric vehicles use ABAT's high-performance lithium iron phosphate batteries."
Wuxi Zhongqiang was apparently not doing particularly well and ABAT bought the company and renamed it "Wuxi Angell." I imagine under ABAT's management style Wuxi is doing fine financially. They recently obtained a 1.1M dollar order from at US company All-American Power for electric motorcycles.
"In a press release announcing the order Mr. Zhiguo Fu, CEO of ABAT, commented on the news:
"This new order is an example of management’s significant progress in expanding and servicing overseas customers. Entering the US market is a very important milestone for us and the renewal of orders from our current customer base in Europe, the Middle East and South East Asia only adds to the recognition our eco-friendly electric vehicles are receiving all around the world."
Mr. Zhiguo Fu, incidentally, purchased 1M shares common of ABAT on the open market in 2009 at average $2.65 a share and owns 10% of all common stock.
Lastly, there are persistent rumors over on Motley Fool that ABAT has a battery contract with Apple for the IPad. I imagine with the monster sales of that product that there are probably a lot of chinese battery makers with contracts from Apple :).
With widespread distribution of ABAT'S ebikes with several continents and recurring orders from many of them I am looking forward to their next earnings statement August 9, 2010.
Pardon me while I go back to sleep.
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
What do you make of the potential for his battery as described to meet the electrical demands of a standard automobile with stop start technology, cold or hot weather, with all the accessories running hard plus lights?
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
China's electric car maker BYD Auto is set to starting selling its electric car e6 in the United States later this year, and the BYD e6 is likely to be priced at about $40,000, People's Daily reported May 19.
On May 17, BYD Auto delivered 40 all-electric e6 cars to the Shenzhen-based Pengcheng Electric Taxi Company in southern Chinese province of Guangdong, making Shenzhen the first Chinese city to have electric taxis in service. BYD plans to put 100 e6 taxis on Shenzhen's roads by the end of June.
Meanwhile, preparations for the BYD e6's entry into the US market are well under way, said Xia Zhibing, general manager of BYD Auto. The newly established BYD North American sales headquarters in Los Angeles will sell the alternative-energy cars. The BYD e6 has passed all necessary tests in the US.
As an SUV-MPV crossover model developed by BYD, the e6 car measures 4,560mm x 1,822mm x 1,630mm, with a 2,830mm wheelbase, and has only five seats in the spacious car body to ensure passengers' comfort. It can run up to 300km (note: 186 Miles) on one charge. It has a start-up time of less than 10 seconds and its speed can peak at 140km/h (note: around 85 MPH)
The BYD e6 uses the eco-friendly rechargeable super-iron battery and starter battery. The super-iron battery can be charged in slow-mode with a 220V power adapter and a 3C adapter in fast charge, filled to 80 percent within 15 minutes.
The e6 electric car's entry into the US market this year will mark a historic moment for Warren Buffet-backed BYD. The selling price of $40,000 may drop after the car's production and sales increase.
Rots of Ruck, Tesla!
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
John said that with 20 million start stop vehicles on the road within a few years there would be plenty of business to go around, plus all the other applications (grid, UPS, RE) etc.
I wish you the best.
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
I won't go into John's sustainability issues regarding all the materials in a L-ion battery, I do not know enough about the field technically.
I will, however, bring up recycling as an issue, as well as the trade in value of lead acid batteries when you buy a new one. That is pretty standard with lead acid. However, I would presume your battery will not have any meaningful trade in value.
In addition, if something were to happen to your battery for whatever reason and someone were not close to a dealer to get another one of your batteries, they would be in a pickle. I presume the auto makers are going to let the driver shut off the start stop function if they want to. That would let them go buy a cheap lead acid if needed and keep on driving. That would not be the case with your battery.
Lastly, what about the lowest SOC issue within a lithoum ion battery - where one bad component spoils the whole barrel? Is that not an issue? When you said extrapolate out to 5-10 years, seems pointless with a three year, 3000 cycles warranty. I really would like to know if that's shallow cycles or full charge-discharge cycles.
I'll try to not post anymore on your battery. In any event, best of luck. There is going to be a big market and with any luck you'll snag something. Thanks for your help.
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
"Analysts note the auto maker (ie, Toyota) originally planned to bring the new version to market in 2008, but delayed the launch when management opted against switching to a Li-ion battery pack and decided to stick with NiMH."
I have read that Asian producers of L-ion batteries will always be the low cost L-ion producers. What's going to stop them from creating a product similar to yours at much lower cost?
Plus you would have to compete with the other bigger companies in the US that make the same product you do with or without a license? Looks to me like you would be in a very cost competitive environment with your technology.
I also have to wonder why in all my reading I have not seen a lot of references to using L-ion as a SLI battery replacement or for stop-start. Can you point me to some information resources that have more data than I am finding in John's articles or comment sections? I am sure you would be aware of them.
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
Incidentally, when the engine shuts off what about all the accessories in the vehicle? Say an SUV with a DVD running, sound system blasting, all the lights, A/C system, etc? How will the Ah cut in half deal with that?
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
Are your products being tested by any automotive OEM's? Are you getting any inquiries? Has anyone been promoting Lithium Ion in whatever flavor as a for stop start battery for automobiles? Are there any ongoing tests by auto oems of L-ion for this purpose with your products or among your L-ion competitors? Is some industry guru presenting technical papers and test results on the topic at industry conferences? Are any vendors displaying products for this purpose at trade shows?
Your post seems to say your battery is equal or better than Axion's and perhaps everybody else's lead-acid battery for stop start applications? The chart John provided here seekingalpha.com/artic... was way beyond 3000 cycles. Are your cycles full discharge cycles or stop start cycles?
Any of those questions you can answer would be very worthwhile to me and all the readers on this topic.
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
Battery Cost Forecasts and The Origin of Specious (With Humble Apologies to Darwin) [View article]
With respect to your stop start battery - how does it compare to lead acid in terms of total energy (which I may not be expressing properly) such as when you accidentally leave the lights on before it goes dead?