What we've learned is that after years of intense scrutiny by the anti-MLM cabal and the "pyramid scheme experts", they have yet to produce any "smoking gun" evidence of any illegality on the part of HLF.
crimebustersnow: "So far the HLF story parallels myriad pyramid/Ponzi schemes shut down by authorities ..."
Can you explain what HLF is doing that "parallels" any "pyramid scheme" shut down by US authorities? What specifically has HLF done to make you publicly accuse them of being a "pyramid scheme"?
Why Robert Chapman Is A Better Leading Indicator Of The True Value Of Herbalife Than Bill Ackman [View article]
dabomb691: 'Every couple years the bottom of the pyramid becomes exponential, so no, herbalife will not exist in 100 yrs'
Can you explain the model you are using that leads you to that conclusion? Herbalife has been around for over 30 years ... how many times has the "bottom of the pyramid" gone "exponential"?
If you use a little logic, you will see the fallacy in your comment.
Herbalife KPMG Affair Compelling Opportunity For Shareholders [View article]
fxfx: "90% of their profits come from - what - shipping and handling fees charged from their 'distirbutors' and other salesforce!! Not from selling the actual 'stuff'"
Can you explain how you can say that 90% of the profit comes from any particular component of COGS? How much of the profit comes from the sales of the protein powder in the F1 product? How about the plastic container? Can you honestly say something like: "they make 800% on the cost of the plastic container!! Not from selling the actual 'stuff'"?
Is Herbalife A Pyramid Scheme? ¿Quien Sabe? [View article]
hudget: "They like things complicated, muddied, fuzzy so they can continue to run their model where millions are brought into the scheme each year and 99% fail."
Who is doing the muddying and fuzzing here!?
You KNOW that there is no truth to your statement that 99% fail, so why do you keep repeating it? Where are you getting your information regarding distributor "failure"?
5 New Questions For Herbalife Investors [View article]
viaticus: "A televised discussion between Ackman and Icahn is not public scrutiny."
Really? Are you suggesting that is the full extent of "public scrutiny" that has occurred?
Did you miss the past 12 months? Einhorn questions, SEC Inquiry, Ackman's 3 hour 340+ page presentation, CNBC's Herb Greenberg "documentary", Herbalife's Investor Day presentation, Ackman's "questions", attorney Daniel B. Ravicher's letters, the hundreds of articles written, the whole anti-MLM community onslaught? ... Really?
I'd say HLF has had non-stop public scrutiny over the last 12 months. Significantly more people are aware of HLF now than a year ago. And yet, even the "experts" admit that there is no public evidence that HLF is doing or has done anything that is illegal. Nothing but FUD.
5 New Questions For Herbalife Investors [View article]
5 more questions:
1) what happens when HLF announces a new auditor firm? 2) what happens if sales continue to grow? 3) what happens when a new auditor signs off on HLF financials? 4) what happens if the regulatory agencies disagree with the "shorts" HIGHLY BIASED assertions of wrong doing on the part of HLF and remain silent? 5) what if the regulatory agencies investigate the damage done to investors by the "shorts" manipulation of the market using unfounded and untrue statements like: "Herbalife is likely a pyramid scheme. The FTC, SEC are likely examining the company." ?
Herbalife: 5 Common Sense Arguments [View article]
hudget: "All one has to do is compare the loss from the "legitimate employees" who actually get a paycheck from HLF and those duped distributors and the billions they lose each year."
OK ... go ahead ... make that comparison. Show us the data.
Or are you just spewing nonsense again?
hudget: "It seems the authorities have an easy choice in who to try to protect more as the duped distributors have lost much more and continue to lose much more if the illegal pyramid scheme allegations hold up as truth."
And what if "the illegal pyramid scheme allegations" DON'T "hold up as truth"? What then? What about all those investors who have been harmed by Ackman and all you shorts? How will they ever be made whole? They've lost billions in the last year.
Herbalife: 5 Common Sense Arguments [View article]
hudget: "And, if you want evidence of the assertions in my previous post, simply reread all your posts specifically the posts referenced above with Dr. Keep."
Seriously, if you can't support your assertions with a specific example, I can't help you. I mean you claim that many of my "posts are without merit and simply spewing the company line" ... so you should be able to give me a few examples.
Herbalife: 5 Common Sense Arguments [View article]
hudget: "Many of your posts have been completely without merit and simply spewing the company line ..."
Example please.
hudget: "... but this latest discussion with William Keep shows you to be totally without any basis of an argument."
How so?
Hudget: "He owns you on this and your remarks are completely off base. He supports his argument with the available facts and you support yours with conjecture and innuendo."
Give me an example of where I'm "off base", or where I'm using "conjecture and innuendo".
Herbalife: 5 Common Sense Arguments [View article]
sacathanas: "3) Please make a definitive statement that you cannot make and do not make any conclusion that HLF is a "pyramid scheme." And, make that statement clearly and honestly without any implication, assumption, or other snarky suggestion that it is. Because, Mr. Keep, that is the truth."
Herbalife: What Have We Learned? [View article]
Herbalife (HLF) gains 1.2% premarket after Carl Icahn disclosed an upped stake in the company (from 15.9% to 16.5%). Bill Ackman speaks today at the Ira Sohn conference. [View news story]
Can you explain what HLF is doing that "parallels" any "pyramid scheme" shut down by US authorities? What specifically has HLF done to make you publicly accuse them of being a "pyramid scheme"?
Why Robert Chapman Is A Better Leading Indicator Of The True Value Of Herbalife Than Bill Ackman [View article]
Can you explain the model you are using that leads you to that conclusion? Herbalife has been around for over 30 years ... how many times has the "bottom of the pyramid" gone "exponential"?
If you use a little logic, you will see the fallacy in your comment.
Why Robert Chapman Is A Better Leading Indicator Of The True Value Of Herbalife Than Bill Ackman [View article]
Same could be said for shorting HLF ...
Nothing new here.
Herbalife KPMG Affair Compelling Opportunity For Shareholders [View article]
Can you explain how you can say that 90% of the profit comes from any particular component of COGS? How much of the profit comes from the sales of the protein powder in the F1 product? How about the plastic container? Can you honestly say something like: "they make 800% on the cost of the plastic container!! Not from selling the actual 'stuff'"?
Herbalife KPMG Affair Compelling Opportunity For Shareholders [View article]
Herbalife: 5 Common Sense Arguments [View article]
Sure ... but publicly spreading known misinformation to manipulate the price of a US equity and trading on that, IS illegal.
Is Herbalife A Pyramid Scheme? ¿Quien Sabe? [View article]
Who is doing the muddying and fuzzing here!?
You KNOW that there is no truth to your statement that 99% fail, so why do you keep repeating it? Where are you getting your information regarding distributor "failure"?
5 New Questions For Herbalife Investors [View article]
Really? Are you suggesting that is the full extent of "public scrutiny" that has occurred?
Did you miss the past 12 months? Einhorn questions, SEC Inquiry, Ackman's 3 hour 340+ page presentation, CNBC's Herb Greenberg "documentary", Herbalife's Investor Day presentation, Ackman's "questions", attorney Daniel B. Ravicher's letters, the hundreds of articles written, the whole anti-MLM community onslaught? ... Really?
I'd say HLF has had non-stop public scrutiny over the last 12 months. Significantly more people are aware of HLF now than a year ago. And yet, even the "experts" admit that there is no public evidence that HLF is doing or has done anything that is illegal. Nothing but FUD.
5 New Questions For Herbalife Investors [View article]
Questioned by those who stand to gain billions ...
It boggles the mind to think of anything getting HIGHER public scrutiny than HLF in the last few months.
5 New Questions For Herbalife Investors [View article]
1) what happens when HLF announces a new auditor firm?
2) what happens if sales continue to grow?
3) what happens when a new auditor signs off on HLF financials?
4) what happens if the regulatory agencies disagree with the "shorts" HIGHLY BIASED assertions of wrong doing on the part of HLF and remain silent?
5) what if the regulatory agencies investigate the damage done to investors by the "shorts" manipulation of the market using unfounded and untrue statements like: "Herbalife is likely a pyramid scheme. The FTC, SEC are likely examining the company." ?
Herbalife: 5 Common Sense Arguments [View article]
OK ... go ahead ... make that comparison. Show us the data.
Or are you just spewing nonsense again?
hudget: "It seems the authorities have an easy choice in who to try to protect more as the duped distributors have lost much more and continue to lose much more if the illegal pyramid scheme allegations hold up as truth."
And what if "the illegal pyramid scheme allegations" DON'T "hold up as truth"? What then? What about all those investors who have been harmed by Ackman and all you shorts? How will they ever be made whole? They've lost billions in the last year.
Herbalife: 5 Common Sense Arguments [View article]
Seriously, if you can't support your assertions with a specific example, I can't help you. I mean you claim that many of my "posts are without merit and simply spewing the company line" ... so you should be able to give me a few examples.
Herbalife: 5 Common Sense Arguments [View article]
Example please.
hudget: "... but this latest discussion with William Keep shows you to be totally without any basis of an argument."
How so?
Hudget: "He owns you on this and your remarks are completely off base. He supports his argument with the available facts and you support yours with conjecture and innuendo."
Give me an example of where I'm "off base", or where I'm using "conjecture and innuendo".
Herbalife: 5 Common Sense Arguments [View article]
This should be good!