U.S. Natural Gas Industry Stifled By DOE Inaction [View article]
Alex_G
I misunderstood you again, I mistakenly thought you opposed the use of domestic natural gas as a transportation fuel here in the USA.....I thought you favored exporting it.
Exxon Mobil Venture Is Approved To Export American LNG [View article]
Craig,
Your belief that America's NG reserves are sufficient to supply a substantial part of our transportation fuel needs begs the question. The answer is very clear to me.
I simply don't want to be included as a member of the dumbest generation in American history by sitting back and not complaining about the way our policymakers are overseeing nearly a $$$BILLION$$$/DAY leaving our economy to pay for foreign crude oil, while enormous NG reserves are right here within our borders.
I'm complaining, NOT ARMCHAIR QUARTERBACKING, as you characterize it. I've stated many times the only sensible path to proceed with is to use domestic energy here in America. It's just plain stupid to export it........then continue importing expensive foreign crude oil. If there's enough to do both fine, but domestic use should be the priority.
U.S. Natural Gas Industry Stifled By DOE Inaction [View article]
To stubbornly insist there is no reason for BIG OIL to oppose a transition to NG as a transportation fuel here in America because [it] owns most of America's NG reserves ignores glaring reality of PROFITABILITY. Much as I respect Craig C.'s knowledge and experience on O&G issues in general, I still believe, for some reason, he's playing dumb on this one.
While I won't question the efficacy of Craig's position, could it be he has a highly leveraged position in continuing the status-quo, as does BIG OIL.
Exxon Mobil Venture Is Approved To Export American LNG [View article]
Gigem,
"Friedman made economics simple." Because he didn't deal with the very tough issue of national well being as opposed to corporate well being.
Again, the rest of the world is not following Friedman's path toward Plutocracy, rapidly expanding economies plan for national interests not corporate interests.
So it really is as though America is competing in the global economy with one hand tied behind it's back. The Big Oil Opec/Oligopoly is the most powerful of all global monied interests today.
Let's get out from under the thumb of this all powerful threat to America. American policy makers should pass legislation to give a "kick-start" to the use of domestic natural gas as a transportation fuel. Smart governing looks out for national interests NOT corporate interests, this is even more true in the new global economy as Samuelson believed.
Fortunately, we have a way to do that.......the newfound wealth of domestic natural gas can lead to renewed economic well being in America.
As radio talk show host Bob Brinker repeatedly reminds his listening audience: "WE HAVE THE BEST GOVERNMENT MONEY CAN BUY."
U.S. Natural Gas Industry Stifled By DOE Inaction [View article]
Alex_G
How do you propose we enforce ROW cost sharing for our military action securing foreign oil supply? Maybe, military action. Now we're really out on a limb.
I just threw in that unanswerable question to show how goofy things have become.
We simply have to get over our addiction to foreign oil. That's the only answer.
U.S. Natural Gas Industry Stifled By DOE Inaction [View article]
Steve Bass.
Well said, as always.
Yes, my argument favoring domestic NG, and/or CH3OH, didn't include the incredible human suffering of warfare necessary to secure a foreign oil supply. If you look back the last twenty five years, virtually every American military engagement was about either securing of defending a foreign oil supply. These military actions are often under the guise of a "fight for liberty" or "defense of democracy."
I'm almost to the point of saying that "The Military Industrial Complex" and "The Big Oil/OPEC Oligopoly" are working hand in glove controlling world affairs, much to the detriment of humanity....and America is flipping the bill in dollars and lives.
As radio talk show host and financial guru Bob Brinker repeatedly reminds his listeners: "WE HAVE THE BEST GOVERNMENT MONEY CAN BUY
U.S. Natural Gas Industry Stifled By DOE Inaction [View article]
Craig,
No way I'd accuse you of being dumb, believe me on that.
My assertion that BIG OIL opposes an American transition to NG in a very big way is largely based on the fact that America consumes more than 25% of refined petroleum products. BIG OIL has enormous investment in the supply chain to satisfy that demand. Think of the thousands of drilling rigs BIG OIL has in place to recover the foreign crude oil brought to US to be refined. Craig, you if anyone should be able to see how this "entrenched enterprise" needed to supply American needs will experience enormous losses on the bottom line if that market suddenly drys up. Of course other markets will buy.....but, with reduced American demand we'll see a global price decline. that's economics 1A.
I really can't imagine why you don't see that BIG OIL has a reason to oppose NG as a transportation fuel.
Also, I don't believe I've ever seen you explain why BIG OIL interests have plowed so much money to oppose the NAT GAS ACT. If you believe BIG OIL wasn't behind defeat of THE ACT last year, please explain who was, THE ACT went down in defeat with 45 DEMs voting for it and only 6 Republican "for" votes.
In a "nutshell" I think your position is based on your choice to ignore the profitability isssue, combined with your choice to ignore the loss of existing infrastructure investment both domestic and foreign.
U.S. Natural Gas Industry Stifled By DOE Inaction [View article]
Steve Bass,
You and I are on the same page RE: BIG OIL's vehement opposition to the American transition to NG as a transportation fuel.
I think you've clearly explained why Big Oil has opposed and continues to oppose the transition. In the past I've accused Craig for playing dumb on this issue. The issue of profitably is a glaring reality that Craig seems to ignore. Obviously domestic NG, even though owned by largely the same BIG OIL interests controlling liquid petroleum, will lose incremental profits on a grand scale, (i.e., profits for recovery of foreign crude lost, profits for transporting lost, profits for refining lost)
In addition to these large incremental profits lost. Big Oil will lose value of the existing retail sales infrastructure. To wit 155,000 retail sellers of refined product, (i.e., Royal Dutch Shell, Chevron, XOM, Valero, etc., etc., etc.,) all standing to suffer reduced profitability as the transition to lower cost NG takes hold.
The stubbornly insist there no reason for BIG OIL to oppose a transition to NG as a transportation fuel because [IT[ owns most of America's NG reserves, ignores the profitability issue as described above. Much as I respect Craig C.'s knowledge and experience on O&G issues, I still believe, for some reason, he's playing dumb on this one.
Exxon Mobil Venture Is Approved To Export American LNG [View article]
Jeep,
First off, Samuelson was correct about the Russian economy 40 years ago.......that in no way reduces my condemnation of command economies. I doubt whether you'll deny that the Chinese economy is growing faster than America's right now. Recognizing that fact in no way constitutes approval of China's communist economy.
I hope you remember that Paul Samuelson was one of JFK's economic advisors, LBJ's economic advisor, and one of Bill Clinton's economic advisors. History treats all three of those Presidencies as positive economic experiences for America.
I fail to understand why neither you nor Craig believe the "biggest bang for the buck" for America's economic, social, and environmental well being is to use the newfound wealth of NG within American borders as transportation fuel right here instead of selling it to foreign economies for their benefit, while we import crude oil at our detriment both economically and environmentally.
Sticking to your non-mercantilist guns come hell or high water is just plain stupid.
I'll repeat the often heard caveat on the subject: If you want to go down as a member of the dumbest generation in American history just sit back, keep quiet, and don't complain about America draining the treasury in the amount of nearly $1,000,000. every 86 seconds, 24 hours/day, 365day/year to pay for imported crude oil while we're sitting on more the enough NG to provide our transportation needs for 100 years.
Exxon Mobil Venture Is Approved To Export American LNG [View article]
Craig,
The quick and dirty response about all the other products we import, is this. A natural resource we have an abundance of within our borders is TRANSPORTATION FUEL, natural gas. But for a very well orchestrated push by BIG OIL, we could be using domestic NG to fuel our transportation needs in very short order, a national push will be required.
I've pretty well defined BIG OIL in past quotes........but I'll do it again: BIG OIL is that consortium of retail sellers, refiners, and oil producing nations that derive the lions share of profits from the worlds greatest consumer of refined potroleum products....US. Again I'll admit I don't know the names of every one of these corporate and privately held enterprises, but I'm sure Royal Dutch Shell, Valero, Tesaro, and Koch Bros should be on the list to name a few.
An experienced O&G man like yourself must be playing dumb. I'm sure you know the list better than I do.
Exxon Mobil Venture Is Approved To Export American LNG [View article]
Jeep,
If I remember correctly, just before economist Paul Samuelson died, after outliving his friendly rival Milton Friedman; Samuelson said that the new globalization of economies has vindicated the Keynesian NEO-mercantilist position he had championed throughout his great career.
Blindly sticking to the NON-mercantilist ideology, is like competing in the world economy with one hand tied behind your back. Competing economies are not constrained to follow the same playbook. Sure it's beneficial to corporations that want to exploit the global economy to it's maximum. But national interests are not well served unless all nations are doing the same.
To make matters worse, The BIG OIL/OPEC Oligopoly has transcended national borders. Look at how Qatar is now aiming to export LNG from America for Qatar's profit. ARAMCO now refines Saudi Arabia's crude oil in America to sell to American consumers in the captive American marketplace. That's fine and good if you're a Saudi, or a stockholder of The Saudi's partner Royal Dutch Shell. It's not good for America.
Now, when legislation comes before Congress to give a very marginal "kick-start" to American NG as a transportation fuel....BIG OIL and NON-mercantilists have the temerity to cry FOUL.
Also, and very importantly your position that American NG is not mine. That's true, unless I'm a stockholder in one of many corporations owning NG here in America. However, unless and until you've repealed the basic economic tenet of "The Multiplier Effect" those dollars used to pay for domestic natural gas are much more likely to create jobs and prosperity here in America, than if those dollars are sent by the $$$$Trillions$$$$ to enrich the coffers of an OPEC member state, or any other oil producing nation for that matter.
The main point I'm trying to make is that it's nonsensical to blindly ignore the newfound wealth of domestic natural gas, and pretend we're constrained by the economic doctrine of non-mercantilism when no one else of the planet is following the same constraint. We're committing national suicide.
As radio talk show host Bob Brinker repeatedly reminds his listening audience, much to his chagrin: "WE HAVE THE BEST GOVERNMENT MONEY CAN BUY."
Exxon Mobil Venture Is Approved To Export American LNG [View article]
Jeep and Craig,
I'm going to lump both Jeep and Craig together in this comment because I don't believe either place enough importance on the reality that if and when America begins to use NG as a transportation fuel it will be a DOMESTIC ENERGY SOURCE.
Jeep you have made my argument easy because you have come right out and declared yourself a frank non-mercantillist. Craig, I've always respected your knowledge and experience in the O&G industry. Also for your expressed desire to reduce the flow of American dollars to OPEC and oil producing nations in general, but then you seem to be arguing against the clearest way to obtain that outcome, (i.e., government encouragement for America's newfound wealth of NG to be used as a transportation fuel.)
IMO, blindly clinging to non-mercantillism is outmoded policy. We're competing in a global economy that has other national leaders flabbergasted with the idea that America would print $$$trillions$$$ to buy oil from OPEC when it has 100 year supply of NG.
Throughout my life the idea of NEO-Merchantillism has displaced that now outdated policy that Jeep frankly adheres to. And Craig, even though I respect your opinion in most O&G issues I think you're missing the boat in agreeing with Jeep on this one.
To say Big Oil hasn't used incredible wealth to influence policymakers is just downright uninformed. Big Oil, and I'll insist on calling that Special Interest which derives enormous profit selling gasoline and diesel to American consumers, BIG OIL; sent $$$millions$$$ to block THE NAT GAS ACT last congressional session.....THAT'S UNDENIABLE.
ROYAL DUTCH SHELL partnered with ARAMCO (i.e., the oil production and refining enterprise privately owned by the Saudi Family) jointly own THE MOTIVA REFINERY, at Port Arthur, Texas. This is the most profitable refinery in the world, it refines Saudi crude oil......and sells it to American consumers. To see this draining of American wealth has us looking like suckers. We've definitely been outmaneuvered on the world economic playing field when we're sitting on 100 years of NG in our own backyard.
Jeep, to complacently say you're proudly sticking to your non-mercantillist position in the new global economy is, well, foolish in light of our newly found wealth in domestic NG.
Exxon Mobil Venture Is Approved To Export American LNG [View article]
Craig,
The accusation that Michael is using a "broad brush to tar the O&G industry" is a very unfair accusation against Michael. I read Michael saying GOVERNMENT policymakers are too unimaginative to see a far superior Energy Policy because they're locked into see it the way Big Oil prefers things, in keeping with the way BIg Oil fattens their campaign coffers.........that's all fact. I think you just squeezed the broad " Brush Tarring of Big Oil" accusation to make your funny pun. I also liked the accusation that Michael "fuels" extremists & uninformed. Humorous copy, but not an accurate portrayal of what I understood Michael to have said.
Natural Gas Rigs: Headed Towards A Shortage - Part IV [View article]
I like your baseball analogy. You hit a home run on that one.
U.S. Natural Gas Industry Stifled By DOE Inaction [View article]
I misunderstood you again, I mistakenly thought you opposed the use of domestic natural gas as a transportation fuel here in the USA.....I thought you favored exporting it.
Exxon Mobil Venture Is Approved To Export American LNG [View article]
Please explain your use of the term "rent seeking."
SKS
Exxon Mobil Venture Is Approved To Export American LNG [View article]
Your belief that America's NG reserves are sufficient to supply a substantial part of our transportation fuel needs begs the question. The answer is very clear to me.
I simply don't want to be included as a member of the dumbest generation in American history by sitting back and not complaining about the way our policymakers are overseeing nearly a $$$BILLION$$$/DAY leaving our economy to pay for foreign crude oil, while enormous NG reserves are right here within our borders.
I'm complaining, NOT ARMCHAIR QUARTERBACKING, as you characterize it. I've stated many times the only sensible path to proceed with is to use domestic energy here in America. It's just plain stupid to export it........then continue importing expensive foreign crude oil. If there's enough to do both fine, but domestic use should be the priority.
Later.........SKS
U.S. Natural Gas Industry Stifled By DOE Inaction [View article]
While I won't question the efficacy of Craig's position, could it be he has a highly leveraged position in continuing the status-quo, as does BIG OIL.
LATER..........Steve KS
Exxon Mobil Venture Is Approved To Export American LNG [View article]
"Friedman made economics simple." Because he didn't deal with the very tough issue of national well being as opposed to corporate well being.
Again, the rest of the world is not following Friedman's path toward Plutocracy, rapidly expanding economies plan for national interests not corporate interests.
So it really is as though America is competing in the global economy with one hand tied behind it's back. The Big Oil Opec/Oligopoly is the most powerful of all global monied interests today.
Let's get out from under the thumb of this all powerful threat to America. American policy makers should pass legislation to give a "kick-start" to the use of domestic natural gas as a transportation fuel. Smart governing looks out for national interests NOT corporate interests, this is even more true in the new global economy as Samuelson believed.
Fortunately, we have a way to do that.......the newfound wealth of domestic natural gas can lead to renewed economic well being in America.
As radio talk show host Bob Brinker repeatedly reminds his listening audience: "WE HAVE THE BEST GOVERNMENT MONEY CAN BUY."
SKS
U.S. Natural Gas Industry Stifled By DOE Inaction [View article]
How do you propose we enforce ROW cost sharing for our military action securing foreign oil supply? Maybe, military action. Now we're really out on a limb.
I just threw in that unanswerable question to show how goofy things have become.
We simply have to get over our addiction to foreign oil. That's the only answer.
Later.....SKS
U.S. Natural Gas Industry Stifled By DOE Inaction [View article]
Well said, as always.
Yes, my argument favoring domestic NG, and/or CH3OH, didn't include the incredible human suffering of warfare necessary to secure a foreign oil supply. If you look back the last twenty five years, virtually every American military engagement was about either securing of defending a foreign oil supply. These military actions are often under the guise of a "fight for liberty" or "defense of democracy."
I'm almost to the point of saying that "The Military Industrial Complex" and "The Big Oil/OPEC Oligopoly" are working hand in glove controlling world affairs, much to the detriment of humanity....and America is flipping the bill in dollars and lives.
As radio talk show host and financial guru Bob Brinker repeatedly reminds his listeners: "WE HAVE THE BEST GOVERNMENT MONEY CAN BUY
Later.........SKS
U.S. Natural Gas Industry Stifled By DOE Inaction [View article]
No way I'd accuse you of being dumb, believe me on that.
My assertion that BIG OIL opposes an American transition to NG in a very big way is largely based on the fact that America consumes more than 25% of refined petroleum products. BIG OIL has enormous investment in the supply chain to satisfy that demand. Think of the thousands of drilling rigs BIG OIL has in place to recover the foreign crude oil brought to US to be refined. Craig, you if anyone should be able to see how this "entrenched enterprise" needed to supply American needs will experience enormous losses on the bottom line if that market suddenly drys up. Of course other markets will buy.....but, with reduced American demand we'll see a global price decline. that's economics 1A.
I really can't imagine why you don't see that BIG OIL has a reason to oppose NG as a transportation fuel.
Also, I don't believe I've ever seen you explain why BIG OIL interests have plowed so much money to oppose the NAT GAS ACT. If you believe BIG OIL wasn't behind defeat of THE ACT last year, please explain who was, THE ACT went down in defeat with 45 DEMs voting for it and only 6 Republican "for" votes.
In a "nutshell" I think your position is based on your choice to ignore the profitability isssue, combined with your choice to ignore the loss of existing infrastructure investment both domestic and foreign.
Later............SteveKS
U.S. Natural Gas Industry Stifled By DOE Inaction [View article]
You and I are on the same page RE: BIG OIL's vehement opposition to the American transition to NG as a transportation fuel.
I think you've clearly explained why Big Oil has opposed and continues to oppose the transition. In the past I've accused Craig for playing dumb on this issue. The issue of profitably is a glaring reality that Craig seems to ignore. Obviously domestic NG, even though owned by largely the same BIG OIL interests controlling liquid petroleum, will lose incremental profits on a grand scale, (i.e., profits for recovery of foreign crude lost, profits for transporting lost, profits for refining lost)
In addition to these large incremental profits lost. Big Oil will lose value of the existing retail sales infrastructure. To wit 155,000 retail sellers of refined product, (i.e., Royal Dutch Shell, Chevron, XOM, Valero, etc., etc., etc.,) all standing to suffer reduced profitability as the transition to lower cost NG takes hold.
The stubbornly insist there no reason for BIG OIL to oppose a transition to NG as a transportation fuel because [IT[ owns most of America's NG reserves, ignores the profitability issue as described above. Much as I respect Craig C.'s knowledge and experience on O&G issues, I still believe, for some reason, he's playing dumb on this one.
SKS
Exxon Mobil Venture Is Approved To Export American LNG [View article]
First off, Samuelson was correct about the Russian economy 40 years ago.......that in no way reduces my condemnation of command economies. I doubt whether you'll deny that the Chinese economy is growing faster than America's right now. Recognizing that fact in no way constitutes approval of China's communist economy.
I hope you remember that Paul Samuelson was one of JFK's economic advisors, LBJ's economic advisor, and one of Bill Clinton's economic advisors. History treats all three of those Presidencies as positive economic experiences for America.
I fail to understand why neither you nor Craig believe the "biggest bang for the buck" for America's economic, social, and environmental well being is to use the newfound wealth of NG within American borders as transportation fuel right here instead of selling it to foreign economies for their benefit, while we import crude oil at our detriment both economically and environmentally.
Sticking to your non-mercantilist guns come hell or high water is just plain stupid.
I'll repeat the often heard caveat on the subject: If you want to go down as a member of the dumbest generation in American history just sit back, keep quiet, and don't complain about America draining the treasury in the amount of nearly $1,000,000. every 86 seconds, 24 hours/day, 365day/year to pay for imported crude oil while we're sitting on more the enough NG to provide our transportation needs
for 100 years.
Later.......SKS
Exxon Mobil Venture Is Approved To Export American LNG [View article]
The quick and dirty response about all the other products we import, is this. A natural resource we have an abundance of within our borders is TRANSPORTATION FUEL, natural gas. But for a very well orchestrated push by BIG OIL, we could be using domestic NG to fuel our transportation needs in very short order, a national push will be required.
I've pretty well defined BIG OIL in past quotes........but I'll do it again:
BIG OIL is that consortium of retail sellers, refiners, and oil producing nations that derive the lions share of profits from the worlds greatest consumer of refined potroleum products....US. Again I'll admit I don't know the names of every one of these corporate and privately held enterprises, but I'm sure Royal Dutch Shell, Valero, Tesaro, and Koch Bros should be on the list to name a few.
An experienced O&G man like yourself must be playing dumb. I'm sure you know the list better than I do.
Later........SKS
Exxon Mobil Venture Is Approved To Export American LNG [View article]
If I remember correctly, just before economist Paul Samuelson died, after outliving his friendly rival Milton Friedman; Samuelson said that the new globalization of economies has vindicated the Keynesian NEO-mercantilist position he had championed throughout his great career.
Blindly sticking to the NON-mercantilist ideology, is like competing in the world economy with one hand tied behind your back. Competing economies are not constrained to follow the same playbook. Sure it's beneficial to corporations that want to exploit the global economy to it's maximum. But national interests are not well served unless all nations are doing the same.
To make matters worse, The BIG OIL/OPEC Oligopoly has transcended national borders. Look at how Qatar is now aiming to export LNG from America for Qatar's profit. ARAMCO now refines Saudi Arabia's crude oil in America to sell to American consumers in the captive American marketplace. That's fine and good if you're a Saudi, or a stockholder of The Saudi's partner Royal Dutch Shell. It's not good for America.
Now, when legislation comes before Congress to give a very marginal "kick-start" to American NG as a transportation fuel....BIG OIL and NON-mercantilists have the temerity to cry FOUL.
Also, and very importantly your position that American NG is not mine. That's true, unless I'm a stockholder in one of many corporations owning NG here in America. However, unless and until you've repealed the basic economic tenet of "The Multiplier Effect" those dollars used to pay for domestic natural gas are much more likely to create jobs and prosperity here in America, than if those dollars are sent by the $$$$Trillions$$$$ to enrich the coffers of an OPEC member state, or any other oil producing nation for that matter.
The main point I'm trying to make is that it's nonsensical to blindly ignore the newfound wealth of domestic natural gas, and pretend we're constrained by the economic doctrine of non-mercantilism when no one else of the planet is following the same constraint. We're committing national suicide.
As radio talk show host Bob Brinker repeatedly reminds his listening audience, much to his chagrin: "WE HAVE THE BEST GOVERNMENT MONEY CAN BUY."
LATER......STEVE K.S
Exxon Mobil Venture Is Approved To Export American LNG [View article]
I'm going to lump both Jeep and Craig together in this comment because I don't believe either place enough importance on the reality that if and when America begins to use NG as a transportation fuel it will be a DOMESTIC ENERGY SOURCE.
Jeep you have made my argument easy because you have come right out and declared yourself a frank non-mercantillist. Craig, I've always respected your knowledge and experience in the O&G industry. Also for your expressed desire to reduce the flow of American dollars to OPEC and oil producing nations in general, but then you seem to be arguing against the clearest way to obtain that outcome, (i.e., government encouragement for America's newfound wealth of NG to be used as a transportation fuel.)
IMO, blindly clinging to non-mercantillism is outmoded policy. We're competing in a global economy that has other national leaders flabbergasted with the idea that America would print $$$trillions$$$ to buy oil from OPEC when it has 100 year supply of NG.
Throughout my life the idea of NEO-Merchantillism has displaced that now outdated policy that Jeep frankly adheres to. And Craig, even though I respect your opinion in most O&G issues I think you're missing the boat in agreeing with Jeep on this one.
To say Big Oil hasn't used incredible wealth to influence policymakers is just downright uninformed. Big Oil, and I'll insist on calling that Special Interest which derives enormous profit selling gasoline and diesel to American consumers, BIG OIL; sent $$$millions$$$ to block THE NAT GAS ACT last congressional session.....THAT'S UNDENIABLE.
ROYAL DUTCH SHELL partnered with ARAMCO (i.e., the oil production and refining enterprise privately owned by the Saudi Family) jointly own THE MOTIVA REFINERY, at Port Arthur, Texas. This is the most profitable refinery in the world, it refines Saudi crude oil......and sells it to American consumers. To see this draining of American wealth has us looking like suckers. We've definitely been outmaneuvered on the world economic playing field when we're sitting on 100 years of NG in our own backyard.
Jeep, to complacently say you're proudly sticking to your non-mercantillist position in the new global economy is, well, foolish in light of our newly found wealth in domestic NG.
Later........SteveKS
Exxon Mobil Venture Is Approved To Export American LNG [View article]
The accusation that Michael is using a "broad brush to tar the O&G industry" is a very unfair accusation against Michael. I read Michael saying GOVERNMENT policymakers are too unimaginative to see a far superior Energy Policy because they're locked into see it the way Big Oil prefers things, in keeping with the way BIg Oil fattens their campaign coffers.........that's all fact. I think you just squeezed the broad " Brush Tarring of Big Oil" accusation to make your funny pun. I also liked the accusation that Michael "fuels" extremists & uninformed. Humorous copy, but not an accurate portrayal of what I understood Michael to have said.
Later..........SteveKS