• Irishmedic
    OK,I feel like an idiot asking this, but what exactly is TVIX and how is it different from the TVIZ.Plus what are the reverse of both these?
    11/11/11
    Reply (63)
    • 1980XLS: TVIX is the world's most exciting company! Reverse is XIV
      11/11/11
    • golfitobob: yes sir. second trade an hope to be a veteran ! lol 80
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    • Irishmedic: Come on girls, I just dont get this, volitility works both ways so what are you betting on with the TVIX and TVIZ
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    • Demi9OD: TVIZ is medium term futures vs TVIX being short term futures of the VIX. The longer the term the flatter the curve.
      11/11/11
    • Irishmedic: Is TVIX, SPXU on steriods?
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    • Irishmedic: And TVIZ SDS on steriods?
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    • Irishmedic: Or am I completley missing it here
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    • 1980XLS: No, vix is the rate of change, although it does tend to rise when market falls, as stocks tend to fall faster than they rise.
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    • Demi9OD: No TVIZ is VIX futures, just like VXX and TVIX, but on a different time frame. I would not trade it due to super low volume.
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    • 1980XLS: SDS trades on the price of the underlying Index. The vix can actually go up when the market is up, althought not very often.
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    • Demi9OD: The inverse with the most juice is IVOP, also low volume. It performs better than VXX due to being opened at a much higher ^VIX.
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    • talbano: isn't XIV the opposite of VXX? not TVIX -
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    • 1980XLS: Maybe I would have to go to CS and check the prospectus'. TVIX is 2X levered. XIV not sure.
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    • 1980XLS: I have been using VXZ as a hedge successfully since June, without fear ( Pun Intended) TVIX for speculative short term trading
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    • 1980XLS: Cowpie is the most noted "expert" on these securities.
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    • Demi9OD: No levered inverse ^VIX futures ETFs exist.
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    • Demi9OD: Speculating with TVIX is like playing Russian roulette, gun pointed at market, and half the bullets backfire.
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    • Irishmedic: OK, I am now more confused than ever, lol. So as long as the market moves in one way or anothe the TVIX goes up?
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    • Ocean Man: VIX is a measure of the spread of SPY put and call buying. If we go up, people buy slightly higher calls. If we go down, people buy much
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    • Ocean Man: lower puts. That's why it seems to grow when we go down, although it measures the consensus low to high realm of possibilities.
      11/11/11
    • golfitobob: Palestinians didnt get good news from UN& r meeting Arab League ASAP.Oil/gold popped on Iran-Israel fear.NO doubt about it ! Article above !
      11/11/11
    • Ocean Man: And that is also why it is nicknamed The Fear Index.
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    • Irishmedic: Ocean, please expand, the TVIX is twice the spread on the spy?
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    • 1980XLS: 90% of the time it goes up with the market down. It often does hold despite market being slightly up, or flat, at times. It measures fear.
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    • Ocean Man: Here's how you remember it: Be afraid (VXX), be very afraid (TVIX).
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    • Ocean Man: You don't buy the VIX itself, but you can buy puts and calls on it, or buy the futures of it.
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    • 1980XLS: Besides,TVIX is Fun! and profitable with good discipline. It is fun making money from the sidelines while watching others panic. I am Mean.
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    • Irishmedic: So as a leading indicator, the lower the TVIX means crap about to hit fan, correct? Assuming low fear means crap about to hit fan, lol
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    • Ocean Man: VXX tracks the change in the short term VIX futures. TVIX tracks 2x the VXX.
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    • Ocean Man: Futures don't move exactly with the VIX, so that's why you can see VIX up 10% and TVIX up 11% some days.
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    • golfitobob: I am sure only 80 even peeked at my talk ! If it becomes an issue it relates to TVIV because it will be a 100 bucks in a few hours ! lol
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    • Ocean Man: Bob - I think that's a very big deal. Another log on the sum of all fears fire being lit this weekend after this ridiculous rally.
      11/11/11
    • golfitobob: I have clients 2 protect besides my family.I speak Farsi an here things live that US news WILL not or can not cover ! This will happen soon!
      11/11/11
    • 1980XLS: This is how I feel when holding TVIX on a Dow -400 day. http://bit.ly/ruLClw
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    • Irishmedic: ROTFL 1980, I think I understand now lol
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    • inquisitivemind7: Hold TVIX if you are anticipating a crash (world recession+European problems), that's what I'm doing. Holding it with a 3-18 mo time span.
      11/12/11
    • inquisitivemind7: If you actively trade TVIX, you will go crazy, that's when I'm sticking a LT strategy, even though I bought around 60, I know it will
      11/12/11
    • inquisitivemind7: eventually go to 100+, as to its peak, in the words of buzz lightyear, SEV INFINITY AND BEYOND!
      11/12/11
    • inquisitivemind7: At this point US macro recession data starting to come out in a matter of weeks,Nov 22GDP # worse than expected-slowing data,Dec2nd job-more
      11/12/11
    • inquisitivemind7: slowing ahead PLUS even more slowing, you can only have so much slowing before you see contraction, when macro data hits market, blood will
      11/12/11
    • inquisitivemind7: be on the streets, just a matter of time...we wait now. I am not counting on spaghetti meatballs and gyros to explode just yet.
      11/12/11
    • inquisitivemind7: For the record, I know a lot of people think 2012 will be as bad as 2008 or even worse but I actually don't think so;MM sees 750 as true btm
      11/12/11
    • inquisitivemind7: that's how I see it.not looking to become a millionaire from this trade,it's part of my multi step plan of going into jrs. after gld bottoms
      11/12/11
    • inquisitivemind7: Putting more money into TVIX and SRTY now @ discounted entries will increase your total assets to buy more stocks later on for dirt cheap
      11/12/11
    • inquisitivemind7: It also depends on your risk tolerance IM, I for one actually think TVIX is safer than put options as the latter can go to zero.
      11/12/11
    • inquisitivemind7: If you also noticed,TVIX has a hard time staying below 50,w/ a band-aid EU resolution on Monday to calm the markets, it may temp fall to 40s
      11/12/11
    • inquisitivemind7: that would be an excellent entry to get in but I wasn't patient enough to get it, folks who are in cash then will get the more optimal entry
      11/12/11
    • inquisitivemind7: Also,if you doubt going 100% into TVIX for the LT, think about it, would you rather be long stocks or long volatility w/recession on horizon
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    • inquisitivemind7: as well as ridiculous # of shocks,European debts that can only be kicked down the road w/less effective kick everytime,potential US dwngrade
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    • inquisitivemind7: it's a perfect setup for a s*itstorm as everything is coalescing around the same time, I do not see myself TVIXing in the future ever again
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    • inquisitivemind7: this is a once in a life time opportunity as financial disasters on this scale are very rare and not priced in yet into the equities market.
      11/12/11
    • golfitobob: in7,just read yr list of talks ! BINGO You get it ! EU banks cant lend&75% of planet uses them.Oil@100/118 HURTS.EU&US GDPs 2012will b BAD !
      11/12/11
    • inquisitivemind7: for fun, I was looking at past h/x VXX figures, VXX in Mar 09 was ~400, in summer 2010 ~140. it's 40 now and '12>Lehman w/countries.
      11/12/11
    • inquisitivemind7: assuming there is recession+Europe goes bust and other crap goes on,let's say VXX conservatively goes to 200 (44 now),TVIX would have to be?
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    • inquisitivemind7: 260-380due to imperfect tracking since it's not exactly 2x (yeah I know, they lied and take a nice expense ratio; now if you buy 100%@60)...
      11/12/11
    • golfitobob: 100 ! And,EU must b in recession! 2012 calk didn't include$120 oil & M/E prob festers & oil stays above or climbs! SNUFF&Bazel 9%by June hmm
      11/12/11
    • inquisitivemind7: if VXX retest Mar 2009 highs @400, say to 600 or so, 4 digit TVIX would be possible but I would NOT bet on such a thing and if it ever did
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    • inquisitivemind7: go that high, God help us all! You may be filthy stinking rich but money wouldn't matter at that point...
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    • inquisitivemind7: That and I think QE3 will happen before the Fed lets that happen in a worse case scenario.
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    • golfitobob: in7,moved out of US & have no US$ accounts.All foreign currencies & amazing yields.And,in 2011.11to17% currency gains 2.&BB wants more deval
      11/12/11
    • inquisitivemind7: QE3 not going to happen any time soon golf,Fed does not QE according to mkt prices/calendar date, they are keeping an eye out on inflation
      11/12/11
    • inquisitivemind7: when it falls to 1.7-1.8%, they will talk more about it, when core ~1%, I would expect QE3, it's 4% right now so keep your eye out on it.
      11/12/11
    • golfitobob: QE was NEVER going 2 happen. BB said 500 times.Mort paper buying.WS scum just want more & begging for more BB is treasonas ! Perry right !
      11/12/11