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Think the PIGS Are in Trouble? These 7 U.S. States Could Be Heading for Something Worse

Feb. 06, 2010 1:48 PM ETUSO, UNG, IYE, AKP, BBF, EIO, EMI, NNC, BLJ498 Comments
Gregor Macdonald profile picture
Gregor Macdonald
1.15K Followers

Out here on Cottage Grove it matters. The galloping
Wind balks at its shadow. The carriages
Are drawn forward under a sky of fumed oak.
This is America calling:
The mirroring of state to state,
Of voice to voice on the wires,
The force of colloquial greetings like golden
Pollen sinking on the afternoon breeze.
In service stairs the sweet corruption thrives;
The page of dusk turns like a creaking revolving stage in Warren, Ohio.

–from Pyrography, by John Ashbery 1987

The inevitable coming of the sovereign debt panic finally engulfed Europe this week as the derisively (or perhaps affectionately) named PIGS spilled their slop on the continent. But Portugal, Ireland, Greece, and Spain are hardly worthy of so much attention. In truth, they are little more than the currently favored proxies among the leveraged speculator community (cough) for the larger problem of all sovereign debt. Indeed, the credit default swaps on these smaller European satellite states were not alone this week in making large moves higher. UK sovereign risk rose strongly, and so did US sovereign risk. With a downgrade warning from Moody’s to boot.

Notable among three of the PIGS are their relatively small populations, and small contributions to either world or European GDP. While Spain has a population over 45 million, Portugal and Greece have populations roughly equal to a US state, such as Ohio–at around 10 million. And Ireland? The Emerald Isle has a population similar to Kentucky, at around 4 million. While the PIGS are without question a problem for Europe, whatever problems they present for Brussels are easily matched by the looming headache for Washington that’s coming from large US states such as California, Florida, Illinois, Ohio, and Michigan.

I’ve identified seven large US states by four criteria that are sure to cause trouble

This article was written by

Gregor Macdonald profile picture
1.15K Followers
Gregor Macdonald is an oil analyst and energy sector investor, who also focuses on the coming transition to alternatives. He has spent this decade researching and investing in the energy sector. While his focus remains on global fossil fuel supply, he has developed several models for transition to The Grid, as the world migrates from autos, to public transport. Solar, Wind, Nuclear and other sources of new supply to The Grid will also be a focus of his writing.

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Comments (497)

BUZZER profile picture
TO THE THREE IMBECILES THAT PUT AUTOMATIC THUMBS DOWN on all of my comments:

You win !! I will no longer comment in a conventional way, since you will track me down and mete out your revenge for some perceived slight.

I enjoyed this site very much and will only make myself known if I feel it is of utmost importance, otherwise it will be quick scan only.

Regards, Buzz
Fred W profile picture
What? are you worried about your rating going more negative?
U are already setting records for SA.
Get a job.
O
Why is it that so many have written about the dilemma we face, so many understand those articles to be true, but no one in our government gives a damn?
Wyatt Junker profile picture
I live in California. Have for the last 41 years. Let them go bankrupt. We NEED to go bankrupt. It will help us.

Think about it.

When the State goes bankrupt, what really happens? It must divest itself of public overextension, at least at some point. Oh sure it will try to raise taxes initially, but if things deteriorate further then it will be forced into committing public employee hari kari, which is a wonderful, beautiful thing.

When a State goes bankrupt, its services go good bye. We don't need its 'services'. Maybe its roads, but that's really about it. We don't need cops. We don't need teachers. We don't need firemen. We don't need OSHA. We don't need the EDD. We don't need an ag dept. We don't need an EEOC. We don't need a DMV. We don't need a labor board. We don't need a HHA office. We don't need our planning depts. We don't need planners. We don't need any of them. Not really.

My dad was born here too before we had any of these state 'jobs' listed above. We did fine.

What we DO NEED and can't live without are private sector jobs, businesses that do real things, not imaginary things like DMV filing fees etc. etc. We need auto parts manufacturers. We need aeronautical developers. We need maritime shippers. We need hamburgers and tacos and tires and diesel and steel and chemical producers. We need real things, thereby real businesses. Not public 'jobs' which are union looters.

Let California go bankrupt PLEASE!

It is the only way. It is the only thing that will truly save us.
r
Is it my imagination or just common sense to notice that all the states with budget problems and massive debt are all run by the democrats and the "free lunch", or the "this is only fair" group thinking?
Does personal responsibility encourage crime, drugs, unprotected sex, communal living and poor health?
Where the "flower children" in fact the weeds in the garden and the democrats the gardeners that led the "weed children" down the yellow brick road. I, for one, do not want to contribute to the insanity and dishonesty of the present leadership. They have taken their California model on a nationwide road show.
BUZZER profile picture
It's called Californication throughout the nation. Sounds like a great song title.
OldAxe profile picture
OldAxe
14 Feb. 2010
Bail them all out! Condition # 1 Set all future state,county and city retirement pay outs at the average industry standard.
Condition # 2 Adjust health care pay outs the same way for all active or retired. #3 Set vacation time the same way with a use it or loose it clause. #4 Impose a 1% federal sales tax to be paid by the state until the bail out is repaid. Impose a 4% sales tax on all internet sales for delivery in the USA.
BUZZER profile picture
You really know how to piss people off don't you? You should really run for election ...............in Angola.
C
Arizona doesn't have the large population, but their financial mess is on a par with the big 7 if you look at "mess per citizen". If you include the illegals camped here, the "mess per person" is about double.
BUZZER profile picture
Great math skills. I'm guessing a grade one dropout?
Peter Cooper profile picture
Harry S. Dent got it right and now predicts a stock market crash by the end of February, see this article for more: arabianmoney.net/2010/.../
BUZZER profile picture
Never happened but there's still hope.
Dumb Wealth profile picture
Throw Japan into the mix and you have a party. Sure, the savings rate saved them over the past 20 years...but that is changing with the aging population.

www.planbeconomics.com.../
BUZZER profile picture
You keep adding people to the invite list and we'll have to rent bigger facilities. There goes the budget all to hell.
u
Tough to take this article seriously when you leave out the Mecca of unemployment, Nevada. Might not have the population, but you have 3 million people concentrated in 2 cities, so to leave them out of this piece is asinine.
BUZZER profile picture
Nevada was neva da prime concern for anybody.
Steve B. Wise profile picture
The sad thing is that the power brokers in Washington stay in denial using our present woes as political bargaining chips rather than working for a solution.
BUZZER profile picture
Washington does what their handlers pay them to do.
Nettligent profile picture
If you think Greece is bad, think again harder. After years of lavish spendings and cover up, California and its counties heading for disaster.
mbkelly75 profile picture
To make it worse - California is the 8th largest economy in the world. It is actually larger than Russia in that sense. It does keep life interesting for the relatives still living in CA.
BUZZER profile picture
This is hardly a competition.
BUZZER profile picture
Maybe California needs to dump the Austrian and bring in a Russian who has been through this crap before.
Dumb Wealth profile picture
Big problems. Apparently the Greek budget deficit is even bigger than originally thought.

Check this video with Stiglitz arguing with Hugh Hendry...awesome, as usual. www.planbeconomics.com.../
BUZZER profile picture
The Greek position is assinine.
C
"...government workers are mostly incompetent and have low productivity.."
sorry mwfall
they work hard, they want your well-being
and... they will get it.
BUZZER profile picture
To use government and workers in the same sentence is a sad joke.
A
I don’t think anything is going to change until most all these career politicians are booted out of office and replaced with some honest people from a broad spectrum of professions that have real solutions to creating productive jobs. As for Obama he could win a lying contest with pinokio.
BUZZER profile picture
Honest people don't go into politics; they start businesses.
Igneous profile picture
They may GO IN being honest......
BUZZER profile picture
Would you be interested in buying a bridge real cheap ?
T
States cannot default under the US Uniform Code. CA is a special case where the state consititution specifically states that they cannot default on their debt. In CA, revs are all deposited into the General Fund, 40% is automatically removed for K-13 schools with debt service being paid out next. The remaining accounts payable either get cash, or IOU's like we've already seen. Municipalities can declare Chapter 9, so you'll most likely see a rise in municipalities defaulting on their debt. Yes, those 7 states are in trouble, no doubt about it - but no mention in this article of tax code as if you check, most of the 7 states are the highest taxed states in the US. The next backbreaker for the states will be their unfunded pension obligations, which, conservatively, is estimated to be $1.3trillion (all states) though that number should be much higher in the reality. There is pain to be felt, to be sure, but massive state-wide defaults just are not going to happen. These states need access to capital markets, they will do what is necessary to ensure their ability to borrow.
BUZZER profile picture
Sounds to me like a 25% cut in pay for teachers and their handlers, would result in a 10% reduction in state expenditures. What was the deficit situation again. This is not rocket science; even an Austrian should be able to do the arithmetic.
S
I have a question for consideration here. I live in a small county with basically one town in it. This town really provides no services that are not already provided by the county. They are only an expense. I can only guess that 150 years ago the town was founded for some reason but that reason no longer exists. Why can't the town be disolved? Get rid of the employees and either do away with the city tax or give it to the county until times get better. I travel all over the country and see many cities and towns that provide no service to those who live there and only create expense. Am I missing something here?
BUZZER profile picture
Sounds to me like you won't miss the town.
t
I just corrected myself on another thread. There is no norm or "normal" other than the fact that people continue to get up in the morning and go to work or do something to survive. What we are experiencing is fraud, manipulation, and ad hoc thumb in the dike moves with copious window dressing.

So what we are seeing is an unintended experiment on all the permutations of exploiting the fact that people will still try to "do" something.

So in the spirit of science I suggest we experiment on AZ(CA is too big). AZ is given a blank check. They are allowed to fund whatever they want for any amount they want. The rest of the country(and to a limited extent the world)pays any shortfall.

Now skeptics might be thinking this may not be sustainable over time entirely on merit.
But we live in an electronic age. Think of the media frenzy, the advertising, the marketing opportunities, the reality show spin offs. AZ is very multicultural and highly photogenic. S. Nevada is a barren ugly hell except for Red Rock and CA is run down and obnoxious. This would be tourism bonanza. Most importantly people will live vicariously through the lives of decent nice Arizonans(although they will be somewhat befuddled).
BUZZER profile picture
Are there that many dykes in Arizona that need thumbing?
paglee profile picture
The price of energy impacts everything in our economy, particularly the electric energy that is needed to power all those motors, lighting fixtures, computers etc. on which industries, businesses, schools, homes, etc. depend, not to mention the automobiles used by workers to get to their jobs. If our politicians tax our energy with their proposed carbon "cap and trade" folly, they will kill lots more jobs, cause plenty more industrial bankruptcies, wreck many businesses, force us to lower our heating thermostats yet some more, and raise those A/C cooling thermostats, too. Here in the mid-Atlantic states, we are about to be hit with the third killer "snow bomb" since mid-December, creating the worst winter conditions since records were initially kept by Philadelphia during the 1880s. Why wreck our economy to attack theoretical, unproven, non-existent "global warming" when we may be headed for global cooling instead?
William Davison profile picture
Higher energy price in the short term will lead to lower ones long term. Only by increasing the cost will it not be wasted, market forces rule. America WAS blessed with abundant natural resources this has lead to a belief by some Americans they have a god give right to cheap energy, this is nonsense. Other countries have had to cope will much higher energy prices and use energy more wisely and still maintain a high standard of living. The sooner the you learn to cope with higher energy prices the less painful will be the transition.
BUZZER profile picture
It's Al Gore's revenge for having the Presidency stolen from him by the Supreme Court of Jesters to give to a moron that happened to be blessed with the looks of Alfred E. Newman.
BUZZER profile picture
You can always increase your gas output by increasing baked beans consumption.
r
Look at the States mentioned, you will also notice the common thread of liberal political and social policy. CA has $450 Billion in debt and they have manipulated their laws so that 80% of State spending is Statutory and thus mandated. Only 20% is discretionary. The states who are more conservative in taxation, promises of social policy and spending are weathering the storm. I am afraid CA will have to go through receivership much like what happened to NYC and the people of CA will have to learn to live within their means.
WS1835 profile picture
This is the very same reason that Europe is suffering more than most of the world. They are the pinnacle of socialism and have a 10-20 year headstart on the U.S. experiment with the same policy. The U.S. has progressed faster lately while the EU has plateaued, but in the end, the result is the same. Cradle to grave socialism is financially and culturally unsustainable. It crashes every time someone is foolish enough to pursue it.
BUZZER profile picture
CA's problems are a lot worse; unfortunately they will have to go through receivershit.
BUZZER profile picture
The big trick in socialism is to reduce the cradle to grave timeframe.
ndallasj profile picture
The singular form of "criteria" is "criterion."
Time2Work profile picture
Jenkins, is that you?
BUZZER profile picture
Your not waiting for some kind of an award are you?
BUZZER profile picture
Yeah, what's it to you?
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