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Bernanke Knows Avoiding a Disorderly Collapse Is Increasingly Unlikely

Apr. 27, 2010 2:58 PM ET57 Comments
Karl Denninger profile picture
Karl Denninger
12.2K Followers

You have to love this sort of utter claptrap...

"Achieving long-term fiscal sustainability will be difficult, but the costs of failing to do so could be very high,” Bernanke said in remarks prepared for a speech today to a White House commission on the budget deficit. “Increasing levels of government debt relative to the size of the economy can lead to higher interest rates, which inhibit capital formation and productivity growth -- and might even put the current economic recovery at risk."

Really Ben?

We need to review a few graphs again.

Let's start with this one: (Click to enlarge)

This is the true deficit, measured simply by the amount of Treasury debt (including intergovernmental games) outstanding. Of note is that it has never decreased materially since 2001. Why is this important? Because every dollar that the government borrows and spends is one dollar that pulls forward demand from tomorrow and spends it today.

This game continues, as it did in the housing market, right up until you can't get any more credit to do it with. But more importantly as you put forward this sort of distortion in the market, the economy becomes habituated to that deficit spending and incorporates it into GDP! This then turns that deficit spending into a mandate on an ongoing basis lest you have a recession - or worse.

Now let's look at how big that distortion has become, as a percentage of GDP: (Click to enlarge)

This is where your problem begins. While government deficits have varied over time, during the 2000 decade they became both embedded in the economy and at a high and continuing level of about 4-5% of GDP. That is, the so-called "recovery" in 2003-2007 was false; it did not consist of organic demand from the marketplace, but rather it consisted of government's fraudulently inflated demand.

This article was written by

Karl Denninger profile picture
12.2K Followers
Mr. Denninger is the former CEO of MCSNet, a regional Chicago area networking and Internet company that operated from 1987 to 1998. MCSNet was proud to offer several "firsts" in the Internet Service space, including integral customer-specified spam filtering for all customers and the first virtual web server available to the general public. Mr. Denninger's other accmplishments include the design and construction of regional and national IP-based networks and development of electronic conferencing software reaching back to the 1980s. He has been a full-time trader since 1998, author of The Market Ticker (http://market-ticker.org), a daily market commentary, and operator of TickerForum, an online trading community, both since 2007. Mr. Denninger received the 2008 Reed Irvine Accuracy In Media Award for Grassroots Journalism for his coverage of the 2008 market meltdown.

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Comments (57)

s
Excellent!!!!
BUZZER profile picture
Buy bullion gold !!
Uber Vandal profile picture
I suggest that if you own gold or silver, own it in coins, NOT bullion.
For some odd reason, collectible coins have been exempt from being confiscated, but not bullion.

Though history does not exactly repeat itself, I keep reflecting on this....

It was in April, 1933 and in his first "official" act in office; President Roosevelt declared a banking "holiday" and issued the order to confiscate gold:

Executive order: By virtue of the
authority vested in me by Section 5(B) of
The Act of Oct. 6,
1917, as amended by section 2 of
the Act of March 9, 1933, in which
Congress declared that
a serious emergency exists, I as
President, do declare that the national
emergency still exists;
That the continued private hoarding
of gold and silver by subjects of the United
States poses a
grave threat to the peace, equal
justice, and well-being of the United
States; and that appropriate
measures must be taken immediately
to protect the interests of our people.

"Therefore, pursuant to the above
authority, I Herby proclaim that such gold
and silver holdings
are prohibited, and that all such
coin, bullion or other possessions of gold
and silver be tendered within fourteen days
to agents of the Government of the United
States for compensation at the
official price, in the legal tender of
the Government. All safe deposit boxes in
banks or financial
institutions have been sealed,
pending action in the due course of the
law. All sales or purchases
or movements of such gold and
silver within the borders of the United
States and its territories,
and all foreign exchange
transactions or movements of such metals
across the border are herby prohibited.

"Your possession of these
proscribed metals and/or your maintenance
of a safe-deposit box to
store them is known to the
Government from bank and insurance
records. Therefore, be advised
that your vault box must remain
sealed, and may only be opened in the
presence of an agent of
The Internal Revenue Service.

"By lawful Order given this day,
the President of the United States."

Though by 1975, it was legal for US citizens to own gold again, the laws are still on the books. This can happen again at anytime.
BUZZER profile picture
Hmmm ? So holding gold or silver gave those individuals an advantage not available to the general public. Now that's food for thought.
J
Mr. Denninger,
Well stated as always.
"expiration is likely to come with little or no warning, and once it arrives there will be no real options available to us that avoid a disorderly economic collapse."

The recommended course of wealth protection action today would be...??

Regards,
JP
altaman profile picture
Ok so when is it time to bend over and kiss my ass goodbye? (a saying popularized during the cold war ear).
n
Not yet. We will e-mail you with time/date stamp.
CAPITALIZER profile picture
Karl, you need to take the blue pill that will tell you the steak is juicy and delicious.
enigmaman profile picture
Bernanke testimony today was very troubling, serious talk about untenable debt, resulting higher rates unless something is done very very soon, cut spending, raise taxes or both are the only two options available, sounds like he is employing CYA getting in front of what he knows is coming, when one day in the near future he finds himself sitting on the hot seat explaining why the economy has relapsed he will point to todays comments and say " you cant say I didnt warn you"
n
Yep, however i keep saying US should sell 10% retirement bonds for the small people. That would fix these A-holes once and for all!
Value Added profile picture
Karl's great concern about the future impact of the federal deficit is valid. If you would like to read a more detailed analysis of the numbers, visit: www.econbrowser.com/ar... (Disclosure: I have nothing to do with this website.) The current deficit numbers are staggering, but even more frightening - as this linked article points out - is the much larger amount of off-balance sheet future unfunded obligations of our government. In other words, our wonderful politicians have promised, by statutes, everything for everyone not far down the road. If you think we are in trouble now (and, we are), just wait until those unfunded obligations become due. I am not given to pessimism, but I don't see how this can be peacefully resolved. I am concerned for the ability of the Republic to retain any resemblance to the country I have known.
Value added.

Good comment. If our govt used anything like GAAP, they would've called in the coroner 10 years ago.

Buzzer is correct:

We need a corporate type cold turkey response to the gov't out of control spending: 20%-30% paycuts across the board all depts and agencies to both salaries and benefits, We need to starve these government parasites.

Immediately eliminate worthless organizations that have destroyed our infrastructure: Who needs the Dept of Energy? Who needs the Dept of Education? Who needs the EPA? Just to name a few of the most obvious. What have these Depts done that couldn't be done far more effectively and cheaper than government? These were nothing more than leftist grabs of constitutionally guarenteed rights.

Am I worried? No... it will happen anyway when the morons in Washington push us off the financial cliff.. that's only 1 or 2 years away anyway.

If we have issue more bonds, we can't afford it. PERIOD
n
we already did this once in the 50's and we will do it again.
s
cut defense spending to levels proportional to what other countries spend, i.e. stop spending twice what the rest of the world COMBINED spends annually. problem solved- or at least rather well ameliorated. and I don't want to hear from any of you fearful pussy chickenhawks. You're about 1000 times more likely to be killed in a car crash than by terrorism. 100 times more likely to slip in your bathtub and die. that will remain the case.
N
When people get used to living beyond their means on borrowed money. Then they usually keep borrowing and spending until they can't borrow and spend anymore.

This kind of a bad habit is very hard to break for individuals and for countries. Because it's easy to acquire large debts. But it's hard to stop borrowing and start repaying such debts. And the easiest path to take is to keep borrowing more and more, until the lenders refuse to lend anymore.

This is similar to drug addiction. Once you are hooked on drugs. Then it's easier to keep taking drugs than to stop and try to break your addiction.

And once you are hooked on living beyond your means on borrowed money. Then it's easier to keep borrowing than to stop and try to break your debt addiction.
BUZZER profile picture
Cold Turkey is the only way; boycott government IOU's !!
LKofEnglish profile picture
Listen all that's being described here is "The Wall." Of course no one likes "numbers" but ignore The Wall all you want. Our latest regime "came to power" and "hit the accelerator" and "since we're the government it must be safe" and though clearly criminal and rare we "go along with it." It is so human to lie cheat and steal but what is truly human is "to trust the authorities." "A violation" I think is how women describe it and what we're "dealing with." Now what is truly simple and therefore insightful about this piece is that no serious person is talking "deficit reduction" for the forseeable future therefore such an obvious reality ("bone sticking out of the skin") is an area that will be debated no matter the moronic political rhetoric.
A
How about providing some economic analysis as opposed to melodramatic moralizing?

The same people who are 'mad as hell' have no ideas other than lynching.
BUZZER profile picture
Now that would get somebody's attention in Congress.
BUZZER profile picture
I have a big problem with the "mathematical fact" myself.

Firstly, it's a failing grade in grade 3 arithmetic since the 11 data points add up to 51 not 58. (Blatant exaggeration!)

Secondly, it's a failing grade in grade 7 arithmetic since the impact on the total annual GDP of $14T is 51/11 or 4.636 hundred billions or $464 billion which is 3.31% average deficit to GDP for 11 years. (Blatant obfuscation!)

To call this a 58% distortion to our $14T GDP is misleading, dishonest, and frankly puzzling. What does "distortion" even mean mathematically speaking?
U
Karl, well said!!!

Perhaps Mr. Bernanke was so mesmerized by the opportunity to try his Keynesian theories using the largest economy on the globe, that he forgot common sense. I have a feeling, however, it's not going as planned and the glamour of his experiment has been replaced with sleepless nights. He's definitely getting louder about the potential for disaster.

I do hope his message sinks in and we begin to address the credit bubble properly. Because if his message doesn't resonate, the cost of "failing to do so could be very high" will be an understatement.

There's only a slim change it could happen, but pray that common sense prevails for a change in DC. In fact, I think there is only a slim chance we can even recover no matter how hard we try. We may have already crossed the point of no return.
A
Ben's Keynesian policies are doing quite well. Unless you have been living on Mars the last six months, you would have noticed the economic recovery ...

Keynes was a Giant; his detractors, bugs ...
U
Like I've said before, there is no recovery until the economy can stand on it's own two feet. Have YOU noticed that none (as in zero) of the stimulus measures have been reduced at all? Did you read what Karl wrote? Do you think the $1.5T credit card spending has anything to do with the "recovery" we're seeing?

If you take the patient off life support, will he live or die? The answer to that is the same answer as to whether we're in recovery or not.
Gary A profile picture
We are almost half way through extended unemployment for millions, and through the free rent for squatters in their own houses. Those are pouring a lot into the economy.
aldol profile picture
it is inevitable and the more we wait the worse it gets.
i have been observing this insanity with disbelief for 12 years or so. in fact since september '98 when a hedge fund crisis prompted another fed bailout, again by injecting cash into wall street.
BUZZER profile picture
And yet my 2 best years in the equity markets over a 24 year period were 2009 and 1999 in that order. The first case was after a meltdown and the latter was the final stages of the Tech bubble.
Philip Mause profile picture
Our problem is very different from Greece or Portugal because our debt is owed in a currency which we can print. Down the street from the Treasury is the Federal Reserve which has a limitless authority to create new dollars. In an extreme situation, the Treasury could issue a $5 trillion 100 year zero coupon bond and the Fed could buy it for $5 trillion resolving the Treasury's cash flow problem for some time. Of course, deficit hawks would be concerned that 100 years from now our great grandchildren would have to deal with the threat that the Fed would not renew the loan but on among all the things to worry about it would be low on most people's lists. Of course, this could have serious inflationary effects and could result in a devaluation of the dollar. But when you fret about devaluation you should ask yourself "against what" - the euro is a basket case, the Japanese have worse deficit problems than we do so I wouldn't worry too much about the yen, the UK is in worse shape than we are so people aren't going to rush into the pound, and the yuan certainly might go up against the dollar but this is the very thing we have been asking the Chinese to do on and off for the last 5 years. Of course a devalued dollar encourages exports and might lead us to actually balance our trade with the rest of the world. So we do not have to tax ourselves into poverty unless we lack the intelligence to assess our situation accurately. What we do have to worry about is inflation, rising interest rates and ultimately a decision on the part of the Saudis to refuse to accept dollars in exchange for oil. These are all real problems and definitely suggest that we should reduce deficits, try to balance the budget over the course of an economic cycle by running surpluses in the years in which the economy is operating at capacity and reduce wasteful federal spending. They are not, however, arguments that we must somehow shrink the economy because we owe ourselves money that we can print at will.
BeneGesserit profile picture
That five trillion dollar zero coupon note is problematic because it starves the real economy of capital. All that funny money the government can print buys real goods and real labor. The real goods and labor purchased by the government, aside from a limited amount used for legitimate government functions, is lost forever.
twotraps profile picture
Great comment, very well said. Agree with all points, just have not come to terms with actual scenarios. The 'math fact' thing is a bit dramatic, but there are multiple outcomes of this Liquidity Experiment the govt is running. Would like to hear what you think about a few scenarios down the road. I wonder about the S&P trading back down into 500 or so, its interesting from a psychological standpoint to speculate what the very long term holders of mutual funds in IRA/401k might do since thats a huge chunk of cash. Before the fundamental stock guys get all over me........please, would anyone really argue that the mkt is distorted now and the old yardsticks might not apply here?
A
It doesn't the 'real economy' because there is enormous slack in the real economy.

In fact, it is the 'real economy' that benefits the most.

Crowding out only when the economy gets close to full employment.

I can't imagine we are any where near that point.
whidbey profile picture
The author is overly generous. The problem we confront is beyond the resources available in our economy, beyond resolution using normal means. The alternatives are not hard, default (restructuring), or inflating the money supply to lower the overall fed debt to total money supply (MZM). They will do a little of both and the populist press and liberal elements will feel compelled to support the result.

The tragedy is that when " Ibstering" (the cluck above) awakens (if he ever does), he will realize there are no good or workable alternatives to impoverishment of the citizens and the industrial base. We live in a country of such hopeless dupes who believe that deliverance from of our congenital stupidity is a national birth right.
A
I am afraid the author is a Right Wing Loser.

Big deficits in the presence of significant excess capacity spells rapid economic growth (tempered by the fact that real estate value will grow glacially over the next twenty years).

I wonder where was Karl when George Bush created large structural deficits ...

He was cheerleading about the great 'supply side stimulus' ....
U
What happens, then, when excess capacity goes to zero? Does the resulting debt disappear? I think what I'm reading is a debate between those who see the short term buzz (which, by the way, is very pleasant. I don't argue that) and those that look at the long term, sustainable health of the economy. I'm 100% convince which way is the right one.
s
9/11 happened. That ramped up fear, which led to a loose money policy.
lbsterling profile picture
Seriously, when you start proclaiming, in so many words, that the imminent destruction of the world is a mathematical fact, it's time to have a look at the scenarios in which you turn out to be wrong.

I'm bearish too, but sheesh! Try to maintain a little perspective.
Gary A profile picture
Well, if push comes to shove, we can just default on the debt. Then we would have a clean balance sheet and could use the interest on the national debt to give mainstreet a bailout.
J
UGH! The nightmare cometh.
Gary A profile picture
America needs to do three things fast. First, reign in the investment banks and the ratings agencies. Second, claw back as much money as can be clawed back from Wall Street. Third, use the clawed back money to go to jobs programs.

As far as Goldman is concerned, we may need criminal prosecutions: hubpages.com/hub/Inves...
s
sudhir
28 Apr. 2010
Private banks direct contribution to the crisis is negligible. Its the monetary policy of the FED and Govt spending that is the root cause of the problem
ctjaeger profile picture
Gary "America needs to do three things fast. First, reign in the investment banks and the ratings agencies. Second, claw back as much money as can be clawed back from Wall Street. Third, use the clawed back money to go to jobs programs."

If all compensation from Wall Street for the past five years was "clawed back" it wouldn't be enough to make a dent in a jobs program.
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