Thin Film Electronics (TFECF) CEO Davor Sutija on Q4 2016 Results - Earnings Call Transcript

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Thin Film Electronics ASA (OTCQX:TFECF) Q4 2016 Results Earnings Conference Call February 24, 2017 11:00 AM ET


Davor Sutija - CEO

Ole Thorsnes - CFO


Rob Stone - Cowen and Company


Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Thin Film's Presentation of Q4 2916 Results. Today I am please to present Davor Sutija the CEO and Ole Thorsnes the CFO. For the first part of this call all participants will be in listen-only mode and afterwards there will be question-and-answer session.

Please note that this presentation and reports includes forward-looking statements covered the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Because such statements deal with future events they are subject to various risks and uncertainties and actual results for fiscal year 2015 and beyond could differ materially from the company's current expectations.

Forward-looking statements, including estimates of capacity, selling price and other material considerations identified by words such as anticipates, projects, expect, trends, intense, belief, estimates, targets, and other similar expressions will indicate trends and future events. Factors that could cause the company's results to differ materially from those expressed in forward-looking statements include without limitation, variation and demand and acceptance of the company's products and services, the frequency, magnitude and timing of raw material price changes, general business and economic conditions beyond the company's control, timing of the completion and integration of acquisition, the consequences of competitive factors in the market place, including the ability to attract and retain customers with source of continues improvement and other costs containment strategies and the company's success in attracting and retaining any personnel.

The company undertakes no obligation to revise or update forward-looking statements as a result of new information, since these statements may no longer be accurate or timely. Thinfilm's financial reports may be accessed via the following web page at

Speakers please begin.

Davor Sutija

Good afternoon and welcome to the Q4 2016 company presentation by Thinfilm. My name is Dav Sutija and I am the CEO of Thinfilm. First for those who are may be new to the company or less familiar with us, a little bit about Thinfilm Electronics ASA as a corporate entity.

The goal and the mission of Thinfilm is to create innovative products using printing and other sheet-based and roll-based manufacturing technologies to be able to enable the creation of essentially post-silicon digital systems that include those that communicate by Near-Field Communication our NFC. The importance of NFC is that by creating ultra-scalable labels that incorporate this type of wireless communication protocol, you can provide digital identities to physical objects through essentially printed and Thinfilm has been a pioneer in this area and is also now with this report, making the transition from being primarily a hardware company to in fact being a fully integrated solution provider, including a software platform that we'll be discussing in some of the slides presented today.

We are publicly listed on the Oslo Stock Exchange and also have a listing of the OTCQX market in New York. As many of you may know, we have a strong patent portfolio with over 290 patents and I would like to state that in 2016, we had 17 new patent issued and seven patent families received priority dates.

Our innovation center in Silicon Valley is going to be moving to a new location and we'll be describing that, including plans for a grand opening towards the end of this call.

Now a little bit about the main use case for our NFC labels and I will be going from slide three now to slide four. The entire idea of mobile marketing is to provide mobile users with information about product, at the time, at the micro moment they are making buying decisions and also to allow them to often make those purchases directly through the mobile devices online.

But there are challenges, especially for a major brands because mobile marketing today is dominated by certain technology platform, either e-commerce providers, such as Amazon or search and social media vendors such as Facebook and Google and other, which in fact garner all of the interaction between consumers and the tools used to learn about brands and products and specific categories.

So how is one, if one is a grand, level the playing field and engage directly with consumers to be able to strengthen their position in the marketplace. What is really challenging when one has as an intermediary at one of these technology platform is that all of the interest in the product is recorded by the technology provider, not by the brand themselves.

So even simple things, like popularity of products or the desire or features to further product innovation is in fact intermediated by others. So by creating an enhanced digital identity on packaging using NFC as a protocol, the ubiquity of NFC enabled smartphones is now increasing substantially and according to reports there are approximately 1.7 billion NFC enabled smartphones in the marketplace.

By adding Thinfilm's NFC labels to packaging or in fact adding them to hangtags, as part of a marketing campaign on bottles and other fixtures, a brand can immediately engage consumers to a simple tap and then the off-line goes online and you really can create an omni-channel experience for consumers.

Now in the last week we have announced after the end of Q4, a major step for our brands, that Thinfilm connect software portal has now been launched globally. In Q4, we already set up the first portal, the China portal and had a beta customer for the China market using this particular platform in order to be able to measure half events with live updates by IP location and also by time period.

Also, we create path data visualization and analytics that can give information over time periods for country and also identify device and operating system types and give information on the tax hikes and the states, some of our tax such as the OpenSense platform allows one to differentiate between tasks done when the bottle or the container is still in the pristine impact on the opened states, often for example during a buying situations or before a purchase and differentiate that from the open states, which is typically when the consumer has started using the product.

So by being able to understand when and in what circumstances people tap and outlining that their location, one can create very important demographics of consumers, where actually interacting with the brand in real time.

Now this solution, the software portal is a cloud-based software platform. It is secure multi-tenant and it is being hosted on Amazon web services globally and on Ali Baba within greater China.

Now as a turnkey solution that allows not only visualization and the recording of past events, but also tag management, and it also allows the brand to change the content as a result of campaigns, so that the user will be able to get a different experience for every single tap or depending on the time of day or the promotional campaign that have limited duration.

So in addition to being able to track consumer activity when that can also linked it up to the type of content that has been delivered and measure the efficiency, the efficacy of mobile marketing campaign, something that is not available to brands in today's mobile marketing situation.

So right now people are essentially using technology platform, social media, search, e-commerce site, but they do not have a measure of the effectiveness of conversion. The way you do to the use of NFC and the ability to be able to take users to an online experience that include the ability to reorder online, and actually measure conversion directly.

Now on page six, we talk about the various applications that has enabled by the combination of our product OpenSense and SpeedTap labels. Our partnership with conversion supply - conversion and integration solution supplier, including new ones that we announced in Q4 the [indiscernible] will come back to, but also including Jones Packaging, a leader in pharma packaging and Constantia a member of the Spears Group was one of the lead packagers in the drains [ph] category globally.

Now, would it connect software portal, you could then enable different NFC omni-channel experiences, e-commerce, product reviews, download how to information. For example, with especially food, how to prepare the food with many different types of over-the-counter pharma products, get information on dosages and proper use of the product and then other scenarios really how to assemble or otherwise use the product most efficiently.

In addition, registration of the product or warranty track and trace, information about the brand story that drives customer loyalty and the important elements that with one tap become available to brands by using the Thinfilm platform.

In addition, one can also push information to consumers. For example, allow them to authenticate the product and also to respond to customer service. So this direct of applications is now becoming available to the use of Thinfilm's and NFC solutions that includes the partner portal that use different campaigns and applications can be managed.

So slide seven gives a little bit more detail of the apps and tools that we're making available. In most cases, brands want a direct to URL experience with consumers, but there are some situations, especially in regulated areas such as pharma where you want to have patient interaction or in areas where you want product authentication, where an application stored at Google Play Store can also be downloaded.

So we already have both generic and product skinned versions of our Thinfilm authenticator app in Google Play. In addition, we have now released developer tools, including SDKs and APIs that will allow third party software vendors to integrate with the Thinfilm NFC platform.

Also from a business-to-business perspective, we have a series of tag and tag management tools allowing the brand and the user of the tags to be able to link those tags to a particular experience and to measure the results in real time, all through an app on the smartphone.

So now let me move and change a little bit of direction to give you some description of the attraction we had in the marketplace in Q4. In addition to the categories that we have been focusing on and we'll give some proof points of those categories, including drinks, tobacco, and craft beers, we have also been expanding the number of vertical with Thinfilm solutions have a verifiable use case.

The first one of these is in partnership with a company called Holoptica that both has a UK and US presence. They are leaders in the holographic solutions for both brand protection, but also documents security.

The first use case that we're working on with them is in providing additional security and immediate the lookup of information on work ID card holders, to the use of NFC. So the relationship with Holoptica brings Thinfilm into a business-to-business application.

And another example of a B2B application is given slide nine, where we have partnered with Prime Vision, a subsidiary of posts are now, where the Prime Vision is a leading solutions provider for both postal, parcel, the district and airport markets and their intent is to deliver innovative smart packaging solutions that allow their customers to be able to track and know the exact route of delivery and get instant confirmation with a simple tap of a smartphone that the packages through that entire route has not been open and in fact, the trajectory is known for the entire process. So this gives a much more granular supply-chain support to Prime Vision and their customers.

Now in our - in the verticals, where we had previously announced customers. We also have a first deployment that is moving past a field trials with -Northern Lights Spirits Oye, they are in Finland-based distiller of handcrafted gin and vodka. They have received numerous awards, including silver medals of the IWSC competitions and they have international markets across much of Europe and Canada.

Thinfilm NFC solutions will allow Northern Lights and their brands, include Kalevala gin to be able to tell the brand story and differentiate against more conventional brand in these categories that are now attracting more and more millennial customers.

So Millennials who are literally digital first really wants to understand the uniqueness of a brand and be able to provide a digital identity on packaging. According to Moritz Wüstenberg, the Managing Director of Northern Lights will allow them to really held up brand story most effectively.

Now as we move to slide number 11, I'll talk a little bit about symptoms converter program, and I do want to talk about the importance of getting additional conversion partners. We expect that this is now going to scale significantly as we expand the range of verticals, that means that we also have to increase the number of converter types.

Jones, for example, that is a North American leader in pharma packaging and in especially packaging. They are primarily focusing on box packaging and on the Thinfilm website one has a link to a enhancing video that Jones has created to show the ability to label 100 million boxes per year on a single manufacturing line in their facilities.

And at the same time using the competitive advantage that Thinfilm has with a very millisecond lead by a read-time also be able to after application ensure the quality of every tag by reading it in real time.

Now, while Jones has been able to secure this type of scalable manufacturing volumes, its also important for many of our customers to also be able to do - try all marketing campaigns, very often that means that rather than integrating into boxes or adding self adhesive or other types of labels to bottles are packaging, the use of elastomeric hangtags such as those developed by Bedford may allow brands to do campaigns exceptionally quickly.

Bedford together with Thinfilm have now announced a partnership where Bedford patented hangtags will now enclose a Thinfilm SpeedTap device and we expect to be in market with Bedford in March of this year with a campaign to roll out hangtags to a significant portion of Bedford's customer base.

In addition, we are also going to expand in particular regional markets and that's why we are targeting approximately 30 program partners by the end of 2017. We are expecting to sign up partners in Asia. We signed up the Nelly, a key partner in Scandinavia and Northern Europe already in Q4 and we expect to also have additional specialty packagers in areas such as cosmetics or other new emerging verticals with Thinfilm.

So fundamentally partners will be selected by the vertical that they specialize in, the type of packaging that they support and also fundamentally by their geography of global reach. Now some partners in fact where globally others will be much more regionally focused.

So I think this really completes a description of the business progress that Thinfilm has made over the last quarter, many of the issues that brands are facing and deploying NFC label are now being addressed by the additional conversion partners and by the global availability of our partner portal to create omni-channel application experiences for end consumers.

With these tools, we believe that - we expect to believe that we should see an acceleration of field trials and global deployment of Thinfilm label in the months in front of us. In order to be able to satisfy the demand that is now expected, we also need to focus on using the funds that we raised in Q4 of last year and in best, in scaling production from the millions of units per month, currently, to literally the billions of units annually.

And we will be doing this in two steps. We announced earlier this week, as described in slide 12, that we have already placed orders for a role based EAS manufacturing line. This comprises nine different production steps, including testing and this line will be delivered to Thinfilm, qualify and the first production from the line is expected to be commercially ready and in market by the end of June for this year.

So the equipment has already been ordered between December and early February, delivery of the equipment will start in June and we expect our site acceptance test of essentially all of the pieces of this particular line by late November of this year.

In addition, the nine steps in EAS manufacturing on the first portion of what is needed to create transistor-based products by roll-based manufacturing. Now transistor-based products include our NFC products, as well as circuitry for smart sensors and devices.

SpeedTap and OpenSense tags will use not only these nine steps, but five additional steps, and those will be ordered we expect by the end of Q2 of this year and will be delivered to Thinfilm following installation of the EAS manufacturing line and we should be - and we expect to be around time for being in commercial production with the NFC front-end die in our new Eagle Junction Avenue manufacturing site by early Q3, 2018 and this is exactly consistent to what we shared with the market at the time of our private placement in early December of last year. So we are on time with regard to both placement of purchase orders and expect the commercial production starts.

Now to describe a little bit more of the progress in moving to a new facility. We announced in October, in early Q4 that we had signed a 12 year lease on 2581 Junction Avenue. This is by all accounts an Intel quality or better clean room that was originally built by Qualcomm, Loe Partners [ph] has - which is a major commercial real estate company in California, has acquired the site and leased it to Thinfilm for our use for 12 years and we are now in the process of renovating primarily the office space to comply with new energy-saving code of course and we expect to move-in to be on time at the end of March, early April. That means at the end of Q1, maybe beginning of Q2 of this year.

After moving in, we do expect to be able to host and we are now stating that the grand opening event will be on Thursday, June 15 and the #mayor San Jose and many customers, partners, industry leaders, media and analysts will be joining us to not only do the official ribbon cutting, but also for tours of the manufacturing site or demonstrations of product in closing on including Thinfilm products and also will have a small seminar that gives those in attendance a clear indication of our technology and product roadmap and also some technical presentations on the future of printed electronics and NFC marketing using those symptoms omni-channel solutions. So I welcome those on this call to contact Bill Cummings, who is our investor relations contact in North America for more information about this event.

Now I do want to say about the sites. The cleaner modification is also ongoing. We received the first permit and the movement of some equipment has already started and the majority of the sheet-based equipment will be already in the process of installation by the end of March when we'll be moving our staff into the building.

So at this point, I would like to hand over to Thinfilm's, Chief Financial Officer, Ole Thorsnes, who will give us a snapshot of highlight for Q4 and overview of the financial results. Ole?

Ole Thorsnes

Thank you, Davor. So we are then on that page 14 and I will go through the highlights and snapshots from the fourth quarters. So the fourth quarter saw the establishment of several new and important go to market relationships across both several verticals and markets for Thinfilm.

Firstly, our newly established office in China received its first order for a leading Asian packaging firm specializing in tobacco and ordered a significant number of NFC OpenSense labels.

Within drinks, a well established vertical for Thinfilm, the finished Northern Lights Spirits announced that they will be using our SpeedTap technology to distribute a smart and connected gin bottle and it will further leverage our newly launched connect software portal solution for remote tag management, custom content delivery, and also detailed analytics and reporting.

Holoptica represented new category in the quarter. They are a leading provider of brand protection and document security technology and will be using a hybrid SpeedTap and Holograms tag for increased security level on government issued identity cards and documents to combat counterfeiting activities.

Further, as also described by Davor, Prime Vision partnered with Thinfilm and are cooperating with us to deliver innovative smart packaging solutions, like increased security, enhance e-commerce functionality and also improved consumer communication for the mail and parcel industry.

We also strengthen our a label converters ecosystem by partnering with Bedford industries and Beneli .On the sunny side, we completed a successful private placement of US$62 million, which was a milestone and enabled the company to initiate ordering of equipment to realize the new roll to roll production line, that Davor has just described and showed a picture of.

And we also announced this week that we have completed the purchase of the EAS -related manufacturing equipment and that we are on schedule for the additional equipment related to transistor-based products.

Lastly, on page 14, I would like to point out that we are early in the Q1 this year, so a restart of follow-up orders from our go to market partner or the EAS anti-tax – anti-theft tax.

So if we then move on to page 15, which is the last slide in our presentation and it shows financial development in the quarter. As communicator earlier, the company intended to undertake a buffer stock build up of front-end die to avoid supply interruptions during the plan production shutdown when we are relocating from Zanker Road to Junction Avenue.

And as you will see in our accounts this has resulted in a significant inventory buildup over the last quarter, our inventories is now 73% higher than it was Q3 and it’s three times higher than one year ago. So we are - we feel we are well ready to maintain commercial traction and development even though we will have an interruption on the production site due to the moving.

Further, our cash position per Q4 was very strong, as a result of the capital raise in December and we entered 2017 with more than US$74 million available on our accounts. And our revenues from product and technologies sales did increase compared to Q3, but the overall we saw a decline in total revenues compared to the full year in 2015 and the reason is mainly due to lower product sales, particularly within the EAS product category.

On the cost side, we saw an increase in operating costs, at the activity level, particularly in our US subsidiary increased related to the PDPS production and development of the roll to roll process.

So that was the end of the presentation and we are then opening four questions to both Davor and me.

Question-and-Answer Session


[Operator Instructions] Our first question comes from the line of Rob Stone from Cowen and Company. Please go ahead. Your line is now open.

Rob Stone

Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my questions. First one is for Ole Ronny, I wonder if you could just comment a bit on the run rate of operating expenses as we start 2017, would you expected to stay the same level as Q4 or are there any sort of one time or year end items in there?

Ole Thorsnes

On the operating expenses. As you know and it has been communicated. We have increased particularly and manning [ph] in the ink subsidiary, that is all - that is what you see particularly in then Q4 and we are still doing some hiring to prepare for the roll to roll production line.

But I think without giving any forecast, what you have seen is representative or current activity level.

Rob Stone

Okay. So generally on the same run rate. I wonder if you could just provide any more detail on the net financial expense in Q4 below the operating line?

Ole Thorsnes

I'll have to get back on that one, as I don't have an answer to give here now. Sorry for that.

Rob Stone

Okay. One for Davor then, its very interesting the additional functionality which are now offering through the portal and all these apps, so its clear that Thinfilm is becoming more a solution company as opposed to a tag or widget company.

My question is, how do you and on the other side, your customers value those cloud-based services on the top of tags, is that something you expect to generate ancillary revenue from or is it embedded in the price of your hardware?

Davor Sutija

Well, currently what we are offering is both a unit price for those who want to purchase SpeedTap and OpenSense and use their own particular, for example many people have ad agencies and others who will be the hoping company's launch solutions for the market place, but we have found that especially what we term as small medium-sized businesses, now these are companies that may have turnovers from $100 million to upwards of $1 billion, they don’t necessarily have a software team or their marketing personnel even though they may be very online savvy in terms of mobile marketing dollars.

They really wanted to have a solution to allow them to deploy the marketplace. So we are offering our essentially field trial packages that include everything, the tags, the software, also the support of our ecosystem partners and being able to integrate the tags into the packaging and to offering of customer.

So we have found that in order to be able to enable the use of NFC for omni-channel there is a lot of benefits to customers being able to have a one-stop shop, where they can get the entire integration. And so then – the way that they were monetizing this currently is that we are offering a complete solution for both field trials and initial global rollout, but all of the customers who are signing up to these platform solutions, to the connect portal are of course signings software license and use agreements.

And as we move forward, as the deployment NFC for omni-channel NFC marketing becomes more prevalent, certainly the value of the data generated, the management of that data and the use of the portal as a core IT tools for mobile marketing will allow us to – we believe in future years also derive additional revenue from software in addition to the tags on a per unit basis.

So we do expect in future years to also be offering some product and license agreements that allow people to further use the benefits of the data that has been assembled from these tag programs. Does that make sense Rob?

Rob Stone

Yes, that was exactly the answer I was looking for. And then finally, I am very intrigued with your comments about the Bedford hangtags, much, much faster time to market and I'm curious given that that's probably oriented towards maybe smaller or shorter campaigns, give us some idea of the unit volumes that we typically be involved for something like that?

Davor Sutija

Yes, so it’s very interesting because Bedford has been using these hangtags. Now Bedford is a very interesting company. It’s a very significant manufacturing organization in the Southern Minnesota. They were the ones who invented the twist tie that it made it possible to keep freshness, in others words, a wire that is coated with taper.

Now they have a significant amount of innovation and they found that they could take an elastomer material and essentially turn it into a – something that could be applied over the top of the bottle. You can then create a marketing campaign literally in real time by adding for example some type of seasonal or promotional call to action on these elastomer tags.

So you can think of the tag and having a call to action on the front and then a whole to which for example, that is taken over the neck of the bottle. Now on the inside of the tag, you can also then add a SpeedTap label, and Bedford is now going to markets. They have sent samples to their top roughly to 150 to 200 murders and these are major organizations, I mean, of the Fortune 500 companies, you can go on the Bedford site and look at the list of names and everything from P&G to drinks companies, the people in the beer market and so forth.

A lot of them are using volumes that is as little 10,000 unit, that can also reach up to a million units. So by being able to leverage Bedford as a channel, we no longer have to have one customer, you can 10, 20, 50, deploying anything from 10,000 to some hundreds of thousands of units literally being able to roll this out in a few weeks time. I think that’s a turnaround for Bedford is less than two months for the whole campaign.

Rob Stone

That sounds really exciting. Thanks. I'll jump in the queue.

Davor Sutija

Thank you.

Ole Thorsnes

And hi – this Ole Thorsnes again, I just wanted to come back to the comment regarding the question on the net financial items to Rockstone, the net financial item that we saw in Q4 is the mostly related then to FX loss. The Nok [ph] weakened significantly compared to US dollar at the end of the year, resulting in a revalidation of our not cash holdings.

Rob Stone

Great. Thank you.


Our next question comes from the line [indiscernible] Go ahead your line is now open.

Unidentified Analyst

Yes, hello. Thanks very much. Thanks for the presentation too. Just on the basis [ph] question, I missed a little bit of it. And I just wanted to – my question is the same, but anyway. It’s about premises supplies cost, it rose from $2.7 million in the third quarter to $4.3 million in the fourth.

I know you are ruining at 24/7, but you are also I think running very fast incentive thing in the third quarter, so my question really is what happen to make that number go up and is many premises or supplies and [indiscernible] more background?

Davor Sutija

Yes. I can give you some more background on that. As you say, we are running at high - at high activity level if it 20% I know, at least its running as much as we can, with something in higher cost, also the fact that we took over the Junction Avenue sites on the fourth quarter resulted in double cost particular on the maintenance, utilities, insurance, et cetera. So that’s also part of the expression.

Unidentified Analyst

Okay. So we should see [indiscernible] this year as well. Excellent…

Ole Thorsnes

We also – yes, Davor…

Davor Sutija

It’s all right. I wanted to say that it means that we have two sites that we had pay on for three quarters. So we are exiting Zanker, we are moving out by the end of Q1 and our lease on the banker facility will terminate most likely on 30 June.

So already in Q1 you should expect double costs, but already in Q2 we will be moving everyone to the new facility and therefore there will be some reduction of this double costing and then that will terminate at the end of Q2.

Unidentified Analyst

That’s very helpful. Excellent, okay. And on the EAS equipment that you had delivered, just to check that the cost is also in line with expectation as well, I mean, you are filling for the rest of the equipment so that everything will be inline with your expectations, is that right?

Davor Sutija

Well, I think that we gave a total cost estimate of $32 million that includes installation and facility modification of the clean room. We do have now placed purchase orders for approximately one third of this amounts and the costs are within 10% of the amount that has been community previously.

So from my perspective, they are online on every particular item. They may be certain savings or certain increases in cost, but they're not at this point a material change to the caustic that we communicated previously.

So I would answer that we are online with the cost estimates given previously, but I don't want to make that assertion down to the dollar. There may be overages in the few percent level.

Unidentified Analyst

That’s very helpful. Thank you. And then just finally, on Xerox, I am just wondering you can give us any sort of update on the situation there and how they feel about – is there new orders coming in or what's going on with the Xerox plant?

Davor Sutija

Well, I would say that with Xerox they did do a marketing push starting in October. They created a new video for Xerox printed memory and I think you know that Xerox is now reorganized and split into two companies. The new CTO of Xerox is the former president of Parc which is their research foundation and the Steve Huber has been a strong champion of the relationship between Thinfilm and Parc and we see the relationship moving forward.

We are supporting them with customer opportunities, both of those - Thinfilm initiated but also significantly opportunities that come from Xerox. So our support both in a field application and engineering and technical services is continuing unabated. So I would say that our partnership is strong and we will - I will in fact be participating in a customer meeting next month together with Xerox executives to give you an indication of the current status of our partnership.

Unidentified Analyst

Can I – this is last follow up, can you remind where the competition coming from for those labels, obviously, they are not getting orders or it be seeing about hearing about it, so you know sort of, it’s the pricing issue do you think and pricing competition is tough or is it some just furnish to get the products into the market do you think?

Davor Sutija

I think that there is qualification time necessary and also a sale cycle. In addition to the technology transfer, we also have to build up knowledge within Xerox of the unique value propositions tied to printed memory and Xerox has done a number of modifications I think going to be very strong for their offering. They had created a number of leaders for the device. These devices are contact-based and it really Xerox is done a fabulous job in creating new reader modalities that I think will be very helpful in the securing orders.

But I did not really want to comment more on Xerox. I think that they are progressing with the work of Thinfilm memory and I don't believe that it is per se direct competition. You know it is a new type of product, it is a new way of authenticating regulated packaging.

And so there is some need also to go through the request for information and bidding processes. So some of the sales cycles may be longer than, for example, Lucien and NFC and EAS.

Unidentified Analyst

Okay. That’s pretty helpful. Thank you very much Davor.

Davor Sutija

Thank you.


[Operator Instructions] There seem to be no further questions on the line. So I hand back the conference to the speakers.

Davor Sutija

Well, thank you very much for participating in our Q4 presentation. We will be back in approximately three months, the beginning of May with our Q1 presentation and I also want to draw everyone’s attention again to our grand opening of the Junction Avenue facility on 15 June of this year. So I look forward, if any of those on the call are going to be at mobile world Congress in Barcelona. We certainly will be there in force and look forward to demonstrating many of the product that we talked about on this call, and others out of there. So thank you for your participation and look forward to speaking to you again soon. Cheers.

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