Rennova Health, Inc (OTC:RNVA) Q4 2016 Results Conference Call April 12, 2017 12:00 AM ET
Kim Golodetz - IR, LHA
Seamus Lagan - CEO and Interim CFO
Marc Gelberg - Director of Financial Reporting
Jack Seeley - Head of Sales and Marketing for Diagnostics
Al Lechner - Head of Sales and Marketing for Software
Welcome to the Rennova 2016 Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Following management’s prepared remarks, we’ll hold a Q&A session. [Operator Instructions] As a reminder, this conference is being recorded Wednesday April 12, 2017.
I would now like to turn the conference over to Kim Golodetz. Please go ahead, ma’am.
Thank you. This is Kim Golodetz with LHA. Thank you all for participating in today’s call. Joining me from Rennova Health are Seamus Lagan, Chief Executive Officer and Interim Chief Financial Officer; Marc Gelberg, Director of Financial Reporting; Jack Seeley, Head of Sales and Marketing for Rennova’s Diagnostics sector; Al Lechner, Head of Sales and Marketing for a Software sector.
Before we begin, I would like to caution that comments made during this conference call by management will contain forward-looking statements regarding the operations and future results for Rennova Health. I encourage you to review the Company’s filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including without limitation, the Company’s Forms 10-K, which identified specific factors that may cause actual results or events to differ materially from those described in the forward-looking statements.
Factors that may affect the Company’s results include that are not limited to product demand, market acceptance, impact of competitive products and prices, decisions by third party payers, product development, commercialization and technological difficulties, the success or failure of negotiations and trade, legal, social and economic risks.
All forward-looking statements speak only as of today’s date April 12, 2017 and except as required by laws The Company assumes no obligation to update these forward-looking statements, whether as a result of any new information, future events, changed circumstances or otherwise.
With that said, I would like to turn the call over to Seamus Lagan. Seamus?
Thank you, Kim. I would like to thank you all for joining us today. We appreciate the opportunity to update you on our business and plans for Rennova for 2017. It has been no secret from our filings and previous communications, the 2016 was a very difficult year for core diagnostics business and the dramatic drop in revenue and cash flow from the toxicology diagnostics for substance abuse facilities at several adverse effects on our business throughout 2016.
Marc will shortly give us the financial summary for 2016. We believe we have made significant progress in the last quarter of 2016, first quarter of 2017, and stabilizing our core business and believe that the refocus sales efforts and success achieved combined with consolidation and cost cutting have created a new base from what we will again grew this sector of a business into a profitable and cash flow positive division by the end of the year.
I will let Jack explain further in a few minutes. Our vision is to build a synergistic platform of needed services for the healthcare industry. We believe we have made significant progress in achieving that vision and while the numbers for 2016 created a picture of losses, they do not reflect the developments and advances that have been made to-date in the different divisions that Rennova now operates.
I would like to explain that progress further. Rennova Health Inc., through its subsidiaries is a provider of an expanding group of healthcare services for healthcare providers, their patients and individuals. We have historically operated our business under one management team. Starting in 2017 to improve efficiency on progress and to provide additional clarity to our shareholders and investors, we have started to separate our different business interests into four divisions with specific management to focus on and deliver value for all of us. These four divisions can best be described as follow.
One, clinical diagnostics through the clinical laboratories. Two, supportive software solutions to healthcare providers including electronic health records, laboratory information systems and medical billing services. Three, decision support and interpretation of cancer and genomic diagnostics. And four, a hospital division created by the recent addition of a hospital in Tennessee. We believe that our strategy will produce a sustainable business and capture multiple revenue streams from medical providers.
Clinical diagnostic side, our principle line of business over the past few years has been clinical lab, blood and urine testing services with a particular emphasis on the provision of toxicology testing to physicians, clinic and rehabilitation facilities in the United States. Testing services to rehabilitation facilities represented approximately 75% of the Company's revenues for the year ended 2016 and approximately 95% of the Company's revenues for the year ended 2015 and 2014.
As we expand our customer base to include pain management and other healthcare providers, we believe we will achieve a more diverse and stable revenue. We believe that we are responding to the challenges faced by today's healthcare providers to adopt paper free and interoperable systems and to market demand for diagnostic solutions by expanding our suite of clinical services.
The drug and alcohol rehabilitation and pain management sectors provide an existing un-sizable target market, where the need for our services already exists and opportunity has been created by continued secular group and need for compliance.
In 2016, we added genetic testing specifically pharmacogenomics testing to our array of services. Genetic testing represents the most rapidly expanding segment of the diagnostics market worldwide. Growing incidence of genetic disease presents new opportunities for genetic testing.
And a report issued by Global Industry Analysts, Inc., the global market for genetic testing is forecast to reach $2.2 billion by 2017. Increasing knowledge about the potential benefits of genetic testing is one of the prime reasons for the growth of this market. Advancements in the genetic testing space and aging population and corresponding rise in the number of chronic diseases and increasing incidence of cancer cases are other factors propelling growth in the genetic testing market.
Primary revenue generating activity in this market revolves around DNA profiling aimed at better understanding the predisposition for diseases and possible adverse reactions that may occur with drugs that are currently available and/or under clinical development. Rising importance of early infection detection and prevention, together with growing demand for DNA tests in pharmacogenomics or cancer genetic testing, are significant factors responsible for this anticipated growth.
To further capitalize on this opportunity, we operate Genomas Inc., a biomedical company that develops PhyzioType Systems for DNA-guided management and prescription of drugs used to treat medical mental illness, pain, heart disease, and diabetes. For those of you who may not know, a PhyzioType Systems consist of three components; an array of inherited, stable DNA polymorphisms from various gens to establish a patient's combined genotype, bio-clinical algorithms for predicting the patient's drug response and a portal for doctors to select the best drug for the patient.
As disclosed in our financial statement during 2016, the Company experienced a dramatic decline in the volume of toxicology samples from the substance of this sector, processed out of these labs, and experienced continued difficulty in receiving reimbursement for these diagnostics in this sector. As a result to reduce cost, the Company has in the first quarter of 2017 moved all its processing of its clinical lab business to its flagship laboratory EPIC and cost reduction efforts are continuing in response to the operating losses encored in 2016.
We expect that success in the last quarter 2016 and 2017 to be at and attracting new customers will drive increased revenue in this division over business and coming months. We continue to focus on securing new customers with diversified testing needs and have initiated a relationship and integration with a California-based clinical research organization. And believe that diagnostic service to clinical research organization creates a high growth opportunity for Rennova.
Our supportive software solutions as well as providing the IT support and set out for lab customers, we have developed and owned several propriety software solutions in this division. We own a proprietary HIPAA compliant software developed to eliminate the need for paper requisitions by providing an easy to use and efficient web-based systems that let customers securely place lab orders, track samples and view test reports in real time.
Historically, we have used this software solely for our own labs, but we're now seeking opportunities and believe this software offers an opportunity for revenue generation from other providers. We owned a Windows-based web-enabled lab information management system. It acts as HIPPA-compliant data warehouse for lab results and includes reporting, data acquisition, label printing, electronic sign off and numerous interface capabilities to a multitude of reference labs and practice system that scale from small physician operated labs to large clinical reference labs.
We own an EHR software for software for substance and this behavior health providers, a dictation-based ambulatory EHR for physician practices and advanced transcription services. Solutions are web-based, 100% secure and HIPPA compliant with remote access, on-site training and intensive 24/7 technical support. We owned a medical billing company that provides revenue cycle management services to third party customers, currently focused on substance abuse facilities. This billing company also functions as our in-house billing company for our clinical labs.
Decision support interpretation of cancer and genomic diagnostics are third division. We own a solution to provide evidence, interpretation and therapy guidance to enhance genomic testing and to provide actionable decision support for standardized evidence-based cancer care and superior clinical outcomes in precision oncology. We also owned and operate Genomus, a biomedical company, which as I mentioned earlier brings DNA-guided medicine to clinical practice with products for personalized prescription of drugs, used in the treatment of mental illness, diabetes and cardiovascular disease.
Our products eliminate trial-and-error prescription with DNA-guided medicine and enable physicians to treat with unprecedented precision, avoiding significant drug side effects, improving effectiveness and enhancing patient compliance. Core applications are drug treatments of mood and thought disorders and mental illness and of cardiometabolic risk in diabetes and and cardiovascular disease. We are developing this section of our business into a focused division with a capable and specialized management team that can deliver an exciting platform to the marketplace. We expect that we will shortly provide an update on progress for this division on a separate call that we will facilitate soon.
Our hospital, the Company believes that the acquisition or development of a hospital division will create a stable and more predictable revenue for a needed services and believers that it can expand the sales of its current products and services to medical providers and doctors’ groups surrounding the hospital. As previously reported, we’ve recently acquired Scott Community Hospital in Tennessee, which includes a 52,000 square foot hospital building, 6,300 square foot professional building on approximately 4.3 acres. This is a critical access real hospital with 25 beds, a 24/7 emergency department, operating rooms and laboratory that provides a range of diagnostic services.
We expect to hub of hospital open in part before the end of the second quarter of 2017 and expect that the hospital will be fully operational by the end of the third quarter of 2017. We are currently on target to achieve these dates, but openly as subject to the receipt of the necessary licenses and regulatory approvals for which applications are ongoing. This hospital had unaudited revenues, annual revenues of approximately $12 million and a normalized EBITDA of approximately $1.3 million for fiscal year 2015, the last full year of the Company’s -- of the hospitals operation.
These revenues were attributable to the typical services of a real acute care hospital including emergency room visits, outpatient procedures, diagnostic ancillary test, physical therapy and inpatient hospital stays. Based on this historical information, we believe the hospital offers an established patient base and will be a source of stable unpredictable revenue for Rennova.
Financial condition, with 2016 behind us and significant financial support secured from one of our institutional investors in the first quarter of 2017. We look forward to delivering value and opportunity to our shareholders with our current strategy. We will continue to consider all options available to us to fund, sell or spin-off one or more of the divisions described and subject to require concepts and regulations will explore the best opportunities to maximize shareholder value.
Now, I would like to turn the call over to Marc Gelberg to provide us a summary of the 2016 financial report, then to Jack Seeley, Head of Sales and Marketing for our diagnostics business to provide some commentary on these activities. And before I wrap up, you will hear from Al Lechner to provide a summary of our software division activities. I will then take your questions. Marc?
Thank you, Seamus. Looking at our full year 2016 results, our net revenues for 2016 were approximately $5.2 million, as compared with $18.4 million for 2015. The decrease in net revenues was primarily due to a $13.8 million decline in clinical laboratory revenue resulting from an 81% decrease in insured test volumes. Revenues from our supportive software solution segment were just over $800,000 in 2016 and that amount is essentially unchanged from 2015. Revenues from our decision and support and informatics operation segment were approximately $700,000 in 2016 and that reflects a full year of operations of CollabRx with whom we merged in the fourth quarter of 2015.
Our lost from operations was $32.4 million compared with $45.5 million for 2015. The narrowing of our operating loss was mainly due to asset impairment charges recognized in 2015 in the amount of $20.1 million as compared with $1 million of asset impairment charges in 2016 and a $7.6 million reduction in direct cost of revenue in 2016, which will largely offset by the decline in clinical laboratory revenues as previously mentioned the Company's transition is significant portion of its testing from external reference laboratories to internal processing which resulted in a 67% decrease in the direct cost for sample.
We reported a net after tax loss to common shareholders of $32.6 million or $30.17 per share for 2016 compared with $37.6 million or $90.46 per share for fiscal 2015. The fiscal 2016 loss to common shareholders includes interest expense of $6.3 million, non-cash gains on the change in fair value of derivative instruments in the amount of $5.4 million and an income tax benefit in the amount of $0.7 million. The fiscal 2015 loss to common shareholders reflects interest expense of $2.7 million and income tax benefit of $9 million and dividends payable on the former Medytox Series B preferred stock in the amount of $1.6 million.
I'd like to point out that our financial statements for both 2016 and 2015 have been retrospectively adjusted for the one for 30 reverse stocks split that we effected in February of 2017. We had cash on hand of approximately $78,000 as of December 31, 2016. During the first quarter of 2017, we issued new convertible debentures with an aggregate principle amount of $12.4 million along with warrants of purchase approximately 29 million of our common stock, for which we received net proceeds of $9.9 million.
Now, I'll turn the call over to Jack Seeley, Jack?
Thanks Marc. And thank you for giving me the opportunity to discuss our performance and to share our optimism for this year. Despite several challenges including overall declines in testing volumes by our clients, reduce census rates in our core client base in Florida and declines in reimbursement for testing. We came out of this year with several reasons for a positive outlook. For the year we have solid gains in our client base in the substance abuse sector and finish with the strong fourth quarter for new business development.
In addition, we stabilized our base away from a few very large clients to several small-to medium-sized customers, which will minimize the effects of attrition and essentially eliminate that violent swings in volumes that play just last year. 2016 also presented us an opportunity to focus on our cost structure as a division. Although, there were very difficult decisions to make, we move forward with several lab consolidations.
In addition we reduced our staff considerably throughout the year, exiting areas of the country that were not profitable for us to be in and consolidating roles for the effect on client retention would be minimal. Finally we eliminated unprofitable lines of business and clients; it is our anticipation that the result of these decisions will be an increase profit margin for the coming year.
As we look ahead we will continue to leverage both our EHR and revenue cycle management products to increase our laboratory sales activity. In addition, we will continue our focus of diversifying our client base to further insulate us from the instability of the substance of this sector.
Furthermore we will place additional focus on becoming a reference Lab's smaller laboratories, a decision that has yielded several prospects for 2017. Finally the upcoming opening of the hospital will afford us to unique opportunity to provide laboratory services as an in network Lab provider to the surrounding physicians. We continue to see steady progress and securing new payer contracts as we prove our commitment to certain clients.
We’re looking forward to benefit from the recent increase in reimbursement by CMS and hope that commercial payers follow suit. We will continue our focus on strict compliance, client education on medical necessity and suppressing over testing, all of which will ensure that we will increase our reimbursements for the work we perform and lower our bad debt.
We’ve already begin to see the growth from our 2016 decisions and finish the quarter close to our goals. We're confident that despite the evolution of and the scrutiny surrounding the substance of this sector, our physician as weaken for compliance has distinguished us from our competition. Our sample counts have rebounded this year back to where we were a year ago and we will continue to focus on moderate continues growth.
With that I will turn the call over to Al Lechner, Al?
Thank you, Jeff, and thank you all for joining and providing me this opportunity to speak to you today about our software and services achievements. We finish 2016 exceeding our new customer goal by a 102%. Our initial launch achieved many milestones working with our IT development team, stabilizing our platform, adding security features that helped to stay ahead of competition.
Some competitors felt an ambulatory EHR could fit the substance abuse vertical, but soon found out that one side does not fit all. Helping us grow our customer base representing now in 17 states with approximately 1,200 users in the first nine months of 2016. This was an amazing efforts expended by the entire team.
We continue to grow our base and gain market share through high touch customer service and offering what others only stride to provide, as we have set the bar through trust and honesty. A reliable, easy to use customizable software solution backed by the number one health care IT team in the industry.
Currently, we're in the process of restructuring our sales team with a keen eye on revenue cycle sales, coupled with our flagship EA chart. This requires not only clinical sales expertise but also billing acumens, happy to report that this focus and initiative has made quality customers, customers that have a larger census and stable financials.
We continue to build out our team with focus on sales people that have acquired this experience to be successful revenue cycle management sales, because of their previous billing sales acumen. Our focus on quality revenue cycle sale orders means defining facilities that have a larger census in financial stability. This focus will help us to attract better clients so that we can invest in our sales teams and stabilize collected revenue.
We continue to monitor our business agreements and focus on quality customers by changing our on-boarding process requirement. We embraced what worked, developing a smarter inside sales team with a focus on clinical electronic health record solutions and look forward to adding a dedicated experienced revenue cycle management billing sales team, which will solidify our momentum around their billing services. We will strategically roll this out by regions.
Our development progress is also hinged around market requirements, driven beyond our team stable platform built last year, but now our features focus to become the software thought leaders empowering the substance abuse care teams win or act with everyday. Delivering these new software solution features our paramount in fighting the substance abuse epidemic.
Development has several key initiatives on the road map that will produce and hold our competitive hedge. Automatic charge capture between our electronic health record and our billing software solution, master treatment plans, enhancing our current individual treatment plans and new alerts to stay ahead of what’s due and what’s important just to name a few.
To recap our software and service business, our primary focus is on our flagship electronic health record solution for substance abuse, coupled with our billing service solutions. This model will deliver the higher yield quality customer revenue stream within the substance abuse vertical.
With this summary, I’ll turn the call back over to Seamus. Seamus?
Thank you everyone. As Jack has said, we are currently enjoying an increasing volume of customers on tests ordered, and we expect to achieve continued growth in our core diagnostic sectors throughout the year. I have previously explained the four divisions we currently operated and we look forward to the hospital opening in Tennessee.
In closing, we have continued implement numerous efficiencies and readjust our infrastructure costs, relative to production in our operations, under nice seeing financial benefits from these actions. We believe that a combination of these efficiencies and increased revenue will return our operations to be cash flow positive.
Our hospital project has a need for continued investment on until it opens and becomes cash flow positive. This was expected before the year end. We are confident that we have adequate financial support to maintain this timeline and look forward to the hospital contributing revenue and value to our company before year end.
On a final note, I have been asked by many shareholders about the financing mechanism used to reuse the cash needed to deliver on our ambitious business strategy. We believe that a private placement as opposed to another public offering, offer several advantages to your company. The main source of recent funding as from one institutional investor, we have been supportive of our business plan over the last couple of years and who wants to see us deliver on succeed with our business plan.
I would suggest that the mechanism of a convertible debenture that can be converted by the investor overtime is much more beneficial to our shareholders on an immediate deletion of ownership and gives us time to attain growth on an unexpected increase in the value of our business. We are excited about the growth and opportunity in the markets in which we operate and believe that the quality of and need for Rennova's product and services will secure increased market share for the Rennova in the years to come.
We firmly believe that 2017 will deliver results more in keeping with the expectations of our shareholders and investors. We remain thankful for the support of all our shareholders and investors. I hope you share management's expectations that the Rennova Health will put -- has been a difficult year behind it and defer value for all our shareholders in 2017 and beyond.
With that, we'll open the call to your questions.
[Operator Instructions] Your first question comes from the line of Spencer Layman [ph], a Private Investor. Please go ahead.
Yes. Your area of substance abuse, there seems to be a huge epidemic of opioids and heroin such across the country and I know even the current administration is very concerned with it. Do you see a lot of government funding flowing into this in this coming year?
Jack, do you want to answer that from the sales perspective or would you like to me have a first rattle out of it.
I can start and you can jump in and that’s not all. And thank you for the question. There has been a lot of talk from the government side in regards to the epidemic and how they want to fight it, but there has really been nothing that we’ve seen to this point and so far is any type of strategy and how to tackle it, which we’re all anticipating some type of ideas actually and into the current administration I know has really kind of tackle this right out of the gate. But to this point, we haven't seen anything from them and so far is, how they're going to support this and their ideas of how to partner with various facilities and how to tackle the epidemic. Seamus, I don’t know if you want to shed anymore light beyond that.
Yes. No, I would make an additional comment. Your observation is absolutely correct. There is an epidemic. It is a massive sector. It’s a sector that we do see first of all a large opportunity for growth. We see a need for our services. But, the other side of that, it’s a fragmented sector with regards to a unified solution. In other words, there is no unified approach. You have a medical necessity and need on one side. You have various treatment plans being applied and you have payers seeing significant cost to maintain these treatment plans and diagnostics and payers trying to -- I'm not going to suggest trying to get overpaying claims, but I will suggest that they have become much more focus on trying to understand what is medically necessary and what is medically beneficial to the patient.
And that’s created over the last couple of years a lot of confusion and we've been focused on this sector, we have a good product in this sector. We provide an excellent service in this sector, but the facilities themselves are customers have undergone a lot of scrutiny as has the medical necessity have a lot of test that they use to treat their patients. So, we see a lot of benefit in the future from what we were trying to achieve.
We working, Jeff mentioned earlier, we work with our customers to try and educate them to try and come up with a program or at least understand what their program is or their medical necessity is and we now have to provide that information to our payers to ensure that we get paid. So it's become a difficult sector with a lot of opportunity, I think that last sentence that difficult sector with a lot of opportunity as a fair description of what's going on.
Thank you very much. One way or the other the bottom line is, as you see it is a great opportunity and I think I heard a few years ago where lot of your competitors were not doing it as well as they should and somehow had to drop out or there was a lot of some funny business. And you were one of the remaining good guys and you should be getting a lot of that business. Is that scenario still exist?
That is a true statement. We have -- unfortunately, we got the bills to prove it, we spent a lot of money on compliance and understanding the rules, regulations, compliance and the sector and we have avoided many of the businesses practices by =-- that were adopted by other parties that definitely provided them a short term gain, but a very short term business opportunity. We've said very clearly that we believe we're here for the long term, five, ten years plus we're here for the long-term in this sector. And therefore, that focus is something that as Jack has referred to you earlier, we maintain and we believe that at the end of the day it is becoming recognized, I appreciate your comment that we are one of the good guys, we like to think that we are, we think that that is being recognized and we think that it is one of the current advantages that we have in attracting new customers across the sector.
And also of course we all hope that your contribution will help solve the problem in the long run. So thank you for that.
What it's all about it is trying to provide a better treatment plan, a better outcome for the patients and that’s where the payers are going as well. We have a lot of communication with payers, even national payers at the minute. We were in business long enough, we have enough recognition, not suggesting that we have all the contracts that we would like to have, but we're certainly talking to the national payers and understanding their needs to try and demonstrate better outcomes going forward for the patient.
[Operator Instructions] Your next question comes from the line of Michael Peters [ph], a Private Investor. Please go ahead.
Thank you for bringing some clarity for us as individual investors as we can, in the following the stock for some time I felt personally. I have a question about whether or not we have or has Rennova thought about the genetic testing opportunities in the fertility treatment platform. If you obviously very familiar with the IVF and the genetic testing that’s done maybe perhaps you guys are, but and that space I am familiar with the market for the need for genetic testing from with respect to the embryos and the eggs and the fertility aspect and it's an epidemic unfortunately from personal experience looking within the medical field. Has Rennova thought about finding different areas? I know you can see, you find in different areas to find our revenue streams which is great, but broadening the scope a little bit to, to tap into things that perhaps you didn’t initially plan on venturing into, I think it might be also beneficial to do that since you have the platform the software and perhaps it’s various sort of synergy there, any thoughts?
Michael, your last sentence is a very accurate statement. We have the platform and we have the expertise that the knowledge to service that sector, that is a sector that we have done some diligence on. We currently do not provide diagnostics in the sector. So don’t let me -- let me be very clear, about the statement I make, but one of the -- if you’re familiar with the sector, one of the advantages that we see with the IVF sector for consideration. It’s almost all direct pay, it’s almost always paid directly by the individuals as opposed to insurance companies deciding whether it should be paid or not.
And I have alluded to the sector of our business, undergoing a little upgrade and restructure, if you like, and I have alluded to a call at some stage in the near future, updating everybody of developments in this sector. And we have built a fairly extensive product offering and we -- the next stage is to secure those additional orders that we can’t service, and we believe we will get there. So just want to be clear that we are not currently servicing that sector, but that is one of the definitely an exciting sector that we are currently focused on looking at. So, does that answer your question, Michael?
Yes, it does and the reason I brought it up, as obviously the investor in the Company who envision staying on long-term, I don’t. I would like to find some value in companies that I feel that may hit strategically this. Your stock prices are little bit depressed right now and hopefully that will change, but I brought it up because it is a revenue stream that’s pretty much direct pay like you said and the -- and you won’t have to worry about insurance companies and all that nonsense to get us a deal with -- and it’s a huge. Unfortunately, you would like it would be easier for some people to be able to have to conceive, but it’s a very profitable business that you can probably tap into given your strategic position and not have to worry about getting paid for your services, which seems to have been a big problem in 2016 so?
Yes, Michael, you’re absolutely right and as you know from my comment, we have done a little diligence on it. The profile of the customer is very different from a customer and the substance abuse sector. It’s usually -- the profile is usually more and keeping with an individual who has waited a little before deciding with family or whatever and they usually are willing to and will and can pay for the past. So, yes, the sector we’re looking out, it’s a sector that provides that there is opportunity and we look forward to seeing how we move forward over the next period of time.
Well, thank you. I appreciate it and we will look forward to the upcoming quarters and thank you again for your time and your response.
And thank you. There are no further questions at this time. Please proceed with your presentation or any closing remarks.
I just like to finish by thanking everybody who has participated. I will say that we do try to keep our shareholders informed. I know sometimes people think that our -- we should have more frequent news announcements and I think that is important to stress that, we are bound by all the SEC and NASDAQ regulations, and we try to keep to SEC filings and very factual events as opposed to an ongoing stream of news that may not have a lot of meaning behind it. So, I appreciate everybody's patience. With that, we do try to keep people informed on our website. And we will provide any additional presentations that we make or participate and including any information of the future conference calls we will make that information, all available on our website. So, again just thank you all for participating and thank you all for your support.
Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes your conference call for today. We thank you for your participation and ask that you please disconnect your lines.
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