Zynga's (ZNGA) Presents at 2020 Morgan Stanley Technology, Media & Telecom Conference (Transcript)

Zynga Inc. (ZNGA) 2020 Morgan Stanley Technology, Media & Telecom Conference March 5, 2020 11:25 AM ET

Company Participants

Frank Gibeau – Chief Executive Officer

Conference Call Participants

Unidentified Analyst

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to -- for those just coming into the morning of the fourth day of the MS TMT Conference. We are so thrilled today to be joined by Frank Gibeau, the CEO of Zynga.

Frank Gibeau

Good morning.

Unidentified Analyst

Let me just quickly run through the disclosures. Please note that all important disclosures, including personal holdings disclosures and Morgan Stanley disclosures appear on the Morgan Stanley public website at www.morganstanley.com/researchdisclosures or at the registration desk.

Frank, you've been at Zynga since 2016. Before that, you were at EA for almost 25 years in a number of business and product leadership roles. Let's jump right into Zynga, though.

Frank Gibeau

Sure.

Unidentified Analyst

Starting with your core forever franchises, so CSR, Words With Friends and then Poker. The latter two have been around for more than 10 years. What does it take to grow a franchise like that over a 10-year period? And then, obviously, some of those franchises actually got their start as many people in the room may remember on PC, some on Facebook. In an increasingly multi-platform future, how could some of those franchises evolve from here?

Frank Gibeau

Yes. It's really -- the total orientation of the company is to build what we call forever franchises. These are games that can last for years and years and years and are updated and kept alive frequently by game teams that are constantly producing new pieces of content, new features, so that the audience is constantly engaged. They have new things to do. They have new people to play with. It acts as an attractor for new players. It keeps current players engaged. And then if somebody lapses out of the game, we can keep it live. And if they want to come back in, it's a very efficient way to recapitalize the player base by constantly keeping these games fresh and changing them over time.

In the cases of Words With Friends and Zynga Poker, I think there's a few things that really work in their favor. First is they're based on game concepts that are very broadly appealing, puzzles, playing cards, been around for centuries. So it immediately is a highly accessible idea for players to come into. The games also at their core are very socially competitive and socially cooperative. It's a place to go and meet friends and play competitively with friends or help them out with a puzzle in case of Words With Friends.

So when you look at how the games have evolved over time, the feature sets have grown tremendously. We've added a lot of new features in Words With Friends like Boosts, new ways to compete. We've changed the letters tiles. We introduced an in-app purchase economy in the game just a couple years ago that augmented the advertising business model. So we're constantly looking for ways to innovate and grow these games. Words With friends is, I think, 12 years old now.

Zynga Poker is right up there. And I think when you look at length of time lines there, what you're seeing in interactive entertainment is that people will spend longer and longer times with franchises they love if they're kept fresh, if they're constantly updated. There's great examples in the industry of other games that have done that, like World of Warcraft and, of course, our lineup, where, if you continue to focus on innovation and player engagement, you can really keep these games alive for a very long period of time.

Earlier in my career, one of the kind of key things that I learned was that platform transition happens all the time in video games and mobile. It's something that you actually have to -- platform transition has to be your friend. You have to kind of look forward to it coming, embrace it and understand that you might need to change your business model, might need to change your content delivery systems, might need to change the game a lot. But the audience is going to be there, and they're going to be moving on to different devices, and they might be changing how they might interact with your game.

But if you resist that, you can cause your company to go out into the wilderness. If you blow a platform transition -- and I think almost every major game company has blown a platform transition in the history of the video game business. It takes a while to come back. Our company is an example of that, where we were very well positioned on Facebook and the mobile revolution kind of went by us. And now I'm happy to report that we're in position for that.

And as we look forward on the company, we're constantly looking for, is it cross-platform play? Is it 5G? Is it AR? Is it VR? We're always looking at whether it's on the horizon or even over the horizon, technology changes that would make better entertainment that fans might love. And so at Zynga, we spend time thinking about that as a growth opportunity as opposed to a threat.

Unidentified Analyst

Right. That's such a great point about keeping the players engaged for the long-term because it's something that, in my conversations, I certainly hear people push back. Well, don't these games just peak and fade really fast? And so like, well, no, there are companies that do really well, like Zynga, really figured ways around that, and that's how you have games lasting 10-plus years.

So in terms of some of your acquired big properties, namely Merge Dragons! and Empires & Puzzles, those have been really big growth drivers for Zynga in the past year. Can you talk about the trends you're seeing with those games as we head into 2020? And then, obviously, you have -- last year you put out another game in the Merge franchise, which has been very successful. It's Merge Magic!. And this year, you have a game from Small Giant called Puzzle Combat in soft launch. Do you have any learnings from launching a game kind of adjacent to one of your big hits that you plan to carry over now to Puzzle Combat?

Frank Gibeau

Let's start with Small Giant. They have a game called Empires & Puzzles right now that is doing extremely well for us. It had an incredibly strong 2019. And the reason that it did so well is it's a really unique blend of a highly accessible game board, where you play basically kind of Match-3 puzzles. But wrapped around it are all these very elaborate engagement systems, which -- whether it's collecting characters, playing PDP, building up your base, it's a very intricate design once you kind of pull away from the very simple, highly accessible front end. And we found that's the case also in the games from Gram. We like that kind of design.

Our audiences are really busy adults. It's not really -- we're not aiming at the 12 to 14-year-old boy, like you see in a lot of other categories, busy adults globally that have opportunities throughout their day to jump into the game. They might have 5 minutes here. They might have 50 minutes later when they get home. And so the reason I call out that kind of player behavior is because Empires & Puzzles and Merge Dragons! do an extraordinarily good job of kind of fitting into our players' lives in a way that is highly rewarding.

And what we saw in 2019 was that Empires & Puzzles grew tremendously, not only where it started, which was in Europe, had very good growth rate in North America. And then we also launched it in Asia. It actually hit number nine in Korea in Korea on Android. We self-published the game there. So what we're finding is that the intellectual property is accessible. It's global. The systems underneath are working in lots of different markets. And we also are looking for new ways to innovate on those systems.

So in 2020, we've already released just in this quarter alone a new season and a season in the Empires & Puzzles are new puzzles. It's a new world. Just in case, it's Norse gods like Valhalla and all that stuff, which has been a huge hit. And then we also have introduced a game pass, which is a subscription layer, which allows players to enter the game, complete things and will start to unlock levels of value inside this. It's called the Path of Valor, and fans really, really like it. And so just in this early part of the year, I could point to two innovations there. The road map of bold beats, which are what we call the content update, is very robust for Empires & Puzzles. And so we have high expectations for the game in 2020.

The next game from Small Giant is a game called Puzzle Combat, which, if you look at Puzzle -- Empires & Puzzles, that's more fantasy, monsters, spells, magic, clerics and Paladins and all the classic tropes that you see from RPGs. Puzzle Combat is Arnold -- it's Rambo, John Wick. It's all the big classic action heroes. It has more about tanks and modern weaponry. And so they're taking a little bit of a different take of the universe that you can go play in. They're looking at the systems that underlie the current game and figuring out what works in this new context.

And when we look at what we did with Merge -- I'll get to Merge Magic! -- Merge Dragons! in a second -- is we have an assumption that they're going to develop in different markets. They're going to appeal to different audiences for different reasons. The mobile market has got 2.5 billion mobile gamers active. So it's hard to saturate a market. We can, but it takes a while. And so from our perspective, we want a game that's very complementary. There might be some crossover players, and there might even be some players that have stopped playing Empires & Puzzles that will come into Puzzle Combat because they loved it, but they're just -- they're looking for something slightly different.

And so this is all the things that we go through in terms of the thesis that we build. That when we're in test markets, we're looking at that data from cohorts, okay, this person played Empires & Pulls, what's their propensity to play this? And how long do they stay? And we're constantly trying to solve for long-term engagement. So we're very excited about the potential of Empires & Puzzles combined with Puzzle Combat, but we're not in a rush to get Puzzle Combat out until we feel like it's in a position to be able to perform in the same context as the first game.

And with Gram, which was the other studio that we bought in prior year, a year before that, they built a game called Merge Dragons!, which is a unique puzzle mechanics that allows you to combine things. Again, it has a big collection layer. You're building a base. You're collecting dragons. You're doing all kinds of cool things with them. I mean we saw the opportunity in testing that people wanted more magical creatures than dragons. They wanted werewolves and fairies and giants. And there's -- if you look go around cultures around the world, there's -- dragons are important part of a lot of mythology, but then there's a whole slew of other characters that we saw.

And we had a lot of innovations that we had learned from as we launched Merge Dragons!. So we saw the opportunity to launch a new game, which we did in about six weeks. We're able to really pull the game together. But it ended up playing differently than Merge Dragons!, very close. They're like siblings more than a copy. And we saw that they were starting to diverge in terms of their feature sets. And we thought that was a good thing.

And we launched the game in the second half of last year, and it's off to a great start. In fact, it's tracking to be our newest forever franchise in the case of Merge Magic!. So we see them operating together. And over time, we'll make sure that they play differently, feel differently and complement each other. Well, I'm happy to report that we did estimate in testing a cannibalization rate between the two games and it came right in on the money. So I felt like we had a good model there for -- one plus one is much bigger than just replacement. And that's kind of the goal with those two brands.

Unidentified Analyst

That's a great point about the -- about your estimates heading into the launch of the game because it segues very nicely into the games that you have in beta right now, which, obviously, you're doing a lot of analysis around. You've got Puzzle Combat and FarmVille that have been in soft launch for a while. You actually overnight last night announced that you put Harry Potter, the Match-3 game, into soft launch. That's very exciting. Congratulations.

Frank Gibeau

Thank you.

Unidentified Analyst

Something that – some people in the room may not be as familiar with is exactly how much data science you’re putting behind these games while they are in beta. So maybe you can talk a little bit about what you’re monitoring in those games, maybe an example the sort of course corrections that you’re making along the way before you fully launch the games and kind of how that relates to these three games that you’ve now got in beta.

Frank Gibeau

Yes. I think on the most basic fundamental level, we’re trying to solve for long-term engagement. So when a player comes in to a free-to-play experience, you want to understand how long do they stay with the game and at what point in time do they potentially leave. And the best games in the world are the ones that have solved engagement first. Monetization is a secondary exercise after you’ve solved for engagement.

And so what we do is we’re constantly looking at by different countries and different cohorts with different demographic profiles, looking at how do they engage with the game, how many of them are around on day seven, how many of them around on day 30, how many are still playing on day 90, day 365 and why. What parts of the game did they not engage with? Which parts of the games did they engage with and why? And so what’s great about mobile games versus – I spent a long part of my career, as you mentioned, in console on Xbox and PlayStation, is you don’t get to test market in a highly predictable way. You kind of run a beta, it’s close to launch and then you – okay, I hope it rolls and your R&D – you’re probably $40 million plus in R&D at that point.

On a mobile game, like I said, we launched Merge Magic! in six weeks after we got some telemetry that said that this was – this could hunt. You can go very quickly. You can go very cheaply. And the important thing is to get in the market and really understand how predictive the results are that you’re getting. And over time, Zynga’s had a long culture built on product management and data science. So, we have a lot of example data, a lot of institutional knowledge around, hey, in this country, this country is good at predicting textability, because it’s got high-volume players, but it’s not good for retention. It’s not good for monetization. Hey, this is a really good country for monetization.

So, you’ll see us test marketing in different markets at different times. We’re running different tests. And based on how those are resulting, sometimes we’ll price things really high to see what the breakage is, at what point is it too high, at what point do we see the efficient frontier of engagement-plus monetization. And so the beauty of mobile games is the capital requirements of them are quite low on R&D. The big capital requirement for a mobile game is in marketing, and it’s performance-based marketing.

So, when you finally get the game out, if the game is configured with strong retention, strong engagement, really good monetization, at that point, that’s when you can turn on the big capital, which is, okay, now we’re going to scale it in marketing, and we’re going to see how many we can install and what the lifetime values are. And so it’s a very flexible model for developers. And I think it’s one of the reasons why when you listen to our calls, we emphasize so much our live services portfolio, right, because we assume the new games could be awesome. But we really want to build the company off the portfolio of live games and had a consistent year in, year out growth because we’re running those businesses 24/7, 365, fully instrumented with data coming in all the time.

It gives us a very good sense of directionally how we’re going to do there. And then if a new game hits like a FarmVille or a Puzzle Combat or Harry Potter or Star Wars, that just increases the trajectory. And so – but it doesn’t put the company at risk. Like a lot of game companies are very beholden to “Hey, if this new game fails, we’re in deep trouble.” We’ve purposely constructed the company in a way that it’s really more option growth value than the trajectory is going to change because 90% of the business that we guide every year is based on what’s unknown live game that’s already out.

Unidentified Analyst

Got it. Speaking of what’s unknown, kind of, assuming in on the present moment, obviously, the very unfortunate situation we’re all living through right now with coronavirus, are you seeing any impact on your user behavior as a result of that? And how should investors frame the situation as it relates to your business?

Frank Gibeau

I’ll start with the company. We’ve taken all the measures that are appropriate for the health and safety of our employees in terms of travel and meetings and from a business continuity standpoint. You could actually run our company from any number of our sites. I mean it’s a fully digital product in the cloud. We’re very distributed geographically, probably 12 sites around the world.

So, Zynga can operate in a situation where this becomes a problem for employees coming in. So working from home or working from different sites won’t be an issue. So feel like we’re okay there. That was kind of job one. Job two is to kind of start to look at what are our players doing. And whether it’s a recession or coronavirus or something like that, when times are a little rough, people tend to turn to entertainment when they have moments to escape or moments where they just want to relax or take their minds off things. And pound for pound, free-to-play mobile games on your phone are about the most efficient and effective form of entertainment out there. You can play it anytime, anywhere. You can get in. You can play it for as long as you want. And so what we’re seeing is that in these types of situations, mobile gaming is pretty resilient. And our audience really sticks with us. And if they have more free time, sometimes that – a portion of that time does go to the games.

Unidentified Analyst

Right. So when you reported, you spoke a lot about or spoke more about your efforts to test games in Asia. And I think you specifically called out markets like Korea, Japan and Taiwan. Can you update us – you mentioned Empires & Puzzles and the Korean charts before, but can you update us broadly on sort of what you’re seeing with the testing in those markets? And are you considering tailoring titles to address Asia? Or is it really just about building titles with broad appeal that work across all of the geographies where you operate?

Frank Gibeau

It starts with recognizing that mobile is a global opportunity. It’s the largest platform in the world. It’s the fastest-growing, and new countries are coming on all the time. Like, I think, India’s gaming revenue doubles every year, thereabouts. And if you start to look at the countries, Africa, Middle East, not even – I’m not even talking about classical Asia, there’s – from a mobile standpoint, there’s tremendous growth yet ahead of us. And so when we look at the overall opportunity at 2.5 billion mobile gamers now, it’s going to be 3 billion. It’s going to go higher from there because you just can’t imagine that you’re not going to want to have your phone on you. And it’s enabled. And you have 5G coming. That’s going to be a huge growth for us in terms of making the channel more efficient, making the games more performing. It’s going to create new distribution opportunities for us.

So, I really like the overall mix. And then when you start to scope into Asia, we fragment Asia immediately when we look at it because the markets are all very different. And we know we have to be successful in Asia long term. And historically, the company has not had much of a business in Asia. And so we start with, can we take a global idea that’s going to appeal to the total market? And then can we – we call it culturalization as opposed to localization, right? Localization to me is you just change the language. But in these countries, you do see changes in user flows, monetization schemes, some heroes are more popular than other heroes. If it’s a game like Empires & Puzzles, some cars are better than other cars.

So, you’ll change the marketing as well. And so what we’ve decided to do is we’re going to enter Asia, and we’ve already started to do that. But we’re going to take a very slow country-by-country approach, where we look at – we looked at Korea first for Empires & Puzzles. And we saw that, that style of game really appeal to that audience. It’s a heavy Android market. Two thirds of the revenue in Korea is from Android. Empires & Puzzles performs very well on Android. And so – and then we thought about, well, do we go with a local partner or do we do it ourselves? And as we looked at the overall market dynamics, Asia is becoming much more performance-based marketing than what you’ve classically seen where you would have to go to these tollgates to partner with them, and then they would bring the games to market.

There’s still opportunities like that, that I think might make sense. But I think it’s more true now than it ever has been that we could go outside of China that you can go direct into the markets. And with the right type of creative in your advertising and the right type of organic plans you could actually self-publish. And so that’s what we did and – as an experiment. And we started in Korea with Empires & Puzzles, gone extremely well. Japan is going really nicely. It’s a little bit of the longer burn in terms of getting the chart position there. But as we roll through Asia, then we start to move through the other countries, Southeast Asia as well as Taiwan.

And then, of course, China is really important to us. Given the status of China right now with some of the government regulation that’s going on as well as what’s going on in the country, we’re just taking a bit of a wait and see on mainland China. But for the rest of the countries in Asia, we’re going to continue to roll out our new products very aggressively in terms of how we think about them. I don’t know how much revenue is going to come for. There’s not much of it in our guidance. But from our perspective, we feel like we have the right approach.

Unidentified Analyst

You’ve spoken in the past about your flexible and sort of global approach to marketing and user acquisition spending, where you look across your whole portfolio, all the different genres and geographies that you operate in and sort of choose to deploy capital in the highest ROI place that’s available to you. Where are you in that journey? Is there a long runway of efficiency gains left? And then does it get better just as you enter more geographies and more types of games?

Frank Gibeau

I think there’s – it’s a continuous improvement-type exercise. There’s always going to be new ways to get leverage out of UA. And I think we’re pretty good at it, but I think there’s – when I look at with Ger and the team, we’re very excited about what’s in front of us. The new capabilities – some of the unique traits that Zynga has will lend itself to that exercise. I mean, we have a diversified portfolio. So we see a lot of buying patterns. We have a global portfolio, so we can look at a lot of different markets. We've developed some unique tools based on our data science and product management. It gives us kind of unique insights into some of the channels and where we could – might get more yield than next guy.

Really a competitive advantage in UA is measured in a few basis point. It's not a – it doesn't need to be a hugely profound thing to be an advantage that will then flow through the whole business. So when we look at UA, customer acquisition is the most capitally intensive part of the business. It's the business that I think still has room to get efficient and effective and generate leverage. I feel pretty good about how our teams go about it culturally. We actually look at it and the games look at it is UA is earned. Meaning there's the classic arbitrage, what's the cost to install and what's the lifetime value of the player? And it wasn't this way when we started, but now it's – okay, we start with the product, honestly.

We don't look at the CPIs. And we say, "Hey, this category cost this much in North America to install. What kind of features do we have in the game? Is your engagement curve high enough? Do you have enough monetization. Do you have – there's enough value in the game for players that have a high enough LTV? What's your conversion percentage?" So we really use a lot of the data science and product management to look at that side of it first. And then – because CPIs are always fluctuating.

One category will get really hot. One territory will get really hot. And what we tend to do is, in real time, we will move those dollars to other places. And sometimes, it looks like, " Hey, they've – the chart position slowed down in North America." Well, if the CPIs are higher on a particular game in North America, it's not that we don't see growth worldwide for the game. We're probably spending in a different country. We could be spending in Germany. We could be spending in Korea and just – and holding serve on North America until the CPIs come down or something else is going on. So I love it because while it is a large part of our capital in terms of the company, we have really good tools to understand on a real-time basis, on a daily basis what the returns we're generating. And if we don't see our – we hold our discipline in terms of we see one of our great games and it goes below the payout thresholds that we want, we'll stop, and then we'll go back and tinker with the game to try to get into position so that we can reinvest.

Unidentified Analyst

Got it. You recently gave a couple of exciting updates on sort of your broader pipeline or rather maybe the philosophy around your pipeline. I want to hit both of them quickly in turn. The first is that you're working to speed up time to market for new games. And you spoke about how you've sort of taken some learnings from some of the studios that you've acquired like Gram Games, for example, and sort of rolled those out across the portfolio. So can you talk us – talk to us about how that played out, maybe give an example of the specific steps that you're now taking to sort of get games out faster and how that's playing out across the broader Zynga now?

Frank Gibeau

Yes. I think if you look at companies in gaming, in general, their studios evolve, that you start with a particular model, you'll learn, you'll adapt, new talent comes in, you might try something that really works and you'd go double down on that. And so I think I hit my fourth year that in – on Friday at the company. And over that period of time, when we started with the studios, they were in a very different configuration than they are now. And if you look at what we started to set out to build there, we were building more, what, the classic tent-pole games, right? Big release like a Star Wars game or Game of Thrones or Harry Potter, where it has an intellectual property that appeals globally, but you're putting a lot of production values and a lot of features upfront before you get too deep into testing.

More of a classic model. And what we've seen with Gram – we call it the Gramification of our studios – is we've seen that we can go a lot faster, and we can go a lot more nimbly. And so what we've done is started to adopt more about high-low mix, where we have a few tent-pole games that we're executing against. But we started to break the teams down into smaller groups, six people, seven people, prototyping quickly, spending a little bit of money in UA to see how it does on a core loop basis. So you're going to see a lot more starts from us in terms of testing these types of elements against these different brands that we have, but also some new intellectual properties.

And you might actually see some new games from us that are more ad-driven, could be 80% ad revenue, 20% IP than what we've typically been doing, which is 80% micro transactions and 20%. So it's exciting time for us. And we feel like with all the studios that we have right now, we're not really doubling down on R&D. Pretty much R&D has only gone up based on the acquisitions that we've done. We feel like we've got the right amount of money there, but that we've changed the configuration and gotten sharper, smaller teams, faster. And it's a direct result of seeing it work in the case of Merge Magic!. And we're starting to apply that back to the rest of the studio. So we're really excited about what that means for us in 2021 and beyond, even this year, perhaps.

Unidentified Analyst

Great. I think you alluded actually in that to the other change that I wanted to tap into, which is mass casual. That's something you talked about on the last earnings call, pushing into in a much bigger way. Obviously, it's a fast-growing and a relatively new part of the market. Tell us more about how you're defining that segment. And how important of an opportunity it is for Zynga?

Frank Gibeau

I think it's a tremendous opportunity because if you look at the share of voice inside the App Stores over the last several years, not just – I'm not saying the amount of revenue, I'm just saying the number of installs, it's grown dramatically. And then when you go and do the research on who's playing these games it is the adults. There's some younger players. But at the same time, these are like – there's shorter, sharper experiences, driven largely from advertising, but they're very complementary to the types of games that we make. And they're very complementary to the business models that we've been experiencing successfully over these last few years.

Our advertising business is one of the biggest in gaming, and it's a good part of our business this year. Last year it was around 18% of our total take. It's been higher in the past. But we think that that's right blend. But when we look at whether some people call it hyper casual, some people call it casual, I think there's an idea there of big audiences that look at these games as quick jump in and plays, much like when I was a kid, you drop quarters in the arcade for a few levels and playing. And if we can add engagement to those types of games and elongate them well, it could be a very interesting way to bring players into our network. Because recall that if you bring in a very high DAU game, there's a way that we could start to introduce the idea, "Hey, why don't you try Empires & Puzzles? Why don't you try Merge Dragons!?"

We have a broad base of games that might allow us to open up a new channel of customer acquisition where the game as a product, a mass casual game, would be – would really work nicely there. That would be one positive strategic effect in addition to we could probably make it profitable, and it would add to our overall DAU mix and overall ad network. So – and by the way, we have a lot of ideas for how these games are fun. And so from our perspective, it's – I think it's here to stay. I think it will evolve rapidly, but it's certainly a place where players are spending a tremendous amount of time.

And if you go in there, these aren't crappy little games. There's some really fun games in there. And I think it's pointing to an opportunity for game companies. If you embrace that part of the mobile market, especially in emerging markets, these type of games do wells in addition to the West, I think it's something for us to consider as a growth opportunity.

Unidentified Analyst

Yes. Not speaking about anyone in particular, but yes, some of your mass casual games are very addictive. So I think just to close out here. Between your convertible bond offering and the sale/leaseback of your headquarters here in San Francisco last year, you're coming into 2020 with about $1.5 billion of cash on the balance sheet. How do you view the market for potential acquisitions as you head into 2020? And has your appetite for another Giant sized deal changed over the past year?

Frank Gibeau

We look at the marketplace and see a lot of opportunity. It's a global talent base. You have game teams that are extraordinarily high-quality coming up in all different places. Look at our deals with Gram, where we picked up a team in Istanbul, not some place you would traditionally think has a big gaming culture, but it does. And so we look globally for opportunities to find talented teams and great leadership, franchises that could become something bigger if they could be on the come in development or moving up the charts. But we also look at a lot of different opportunities in terms of companies in the West that might have a bigger intellectual property.

We're scanning the marketplace all the time because we think that Zynga is a destination of choice for a lot of these developers, because of our size, because of our mobile focus, because we're nimble, we're fast. And we have a particular culture that I think they find interesting and appealing, which is we allow them to come in and really maintain their creative culture. I mean, in some ways, it's obvious, but it's in light of self interest. If you're going to buy a creative team with why would you change the culture? Why would you force integration more than you have to? And so we've developed a reputation through Gram, Small Giant and even a car game division that we bought before there where these guys talk and say, "It's great here." And we've also grown the company at the same time.

So it's not the – we maintain most of our focus on growing the live business year in and year out, the new pipeline of new games, but – and then looking at new platforms and mass casual. But on top of that, we do have, we believe, an opportunity inorganically to add to the talent base of the company and potentially add new forever franchises to our portfolio, which we believe is going to be good for shareholders.

Unidentified Analyst

That's great. Looking forward to see what you have in-store in 2020. Until then, I'll see you in Empires & Puzzles. And thanks very much for joining us.

Frank Gibeau

Thank you much. Thanks, everyone.

Question-and-Answer Session

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