Cannabinoid Capital (Podcast Transcript)


  • The CBD market has recently seen a multibillion-dollar deal and Hempfusion going public.
  • Co-Founder/CEO Dr. Jason Mitchell and CCO Danny Brody join the show to discuss radical transparency, methodical growth and becoming more efficient during Covid.
  • We also cover the opportunity in probiotics and hemp. Doing things right as opposed to right away and why expansion is absolute.

Editors' Note: This is the transcript version of the podcast we posted last Wednesday. Please note that due to time and audio constraints, transcription may not be perfect. We encourage you to listen to the podcast, embedded below, if you need any clarification. We hope you enjoy!

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Rena Sherbill: Hey, again, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Great to have you listening as always. Today, really happy to bring you a conversation with Dr. Jason Mitchell and Danny Brody, from Hempfusion (OTCPK:CBDHF). Hempfusion, as many of you may know, went public last week, very exciting. They're one of a few CBD companies that are really at the top of the investment hierarchy. And they talk to us today about how they got there, mostly through compliance and being ready to be regulation ready even before the regulations are in place.

And we've been talking about on the show how that's really an imperative when we're talking about cannabis and being ready for the next stages of regulation to really pre-empt some of those regulations and already be ready to capitalize when it hits the ground. And Dr. Jason talks about growing up next to Nancy Reagan, and how that helped form some of his opinions and how he changed some of those opinions about cannabis, about what we have up until now called drugs.

And just a really interesting conversation with one of the leading CBD companies that are now public, and a great conversation about the future of the industry and where they see it going. A lot of detail, as they say, radical transparency. And as listeners know, I am a big fan of radical transparency. And as investors I think we all should be how much that shows us about a company and a lot of pearls here.

And before we get to the interview, I want to talk a couple of minutes about the state of the cannabis industry. We're talking about - a lot about profits lately. The U.S. industry, as we all are seeing is on fire. And it's amazing to be able to profit off of that. And as we all know the cannabis industry is doing a lot to right some of its wrongs.

And I think as investors, we're not always paying attention to the wrongs that have been done. We're more paying attention to the profits that are available as we should be, because that's what investing is. But as we said today on the show conscious capitalism, I very much believe in that term. I believe in being conscious investors as well, and knowing where we're putting our money.

So recently published an article that I think just has many compelling and really sad statistics. They said, a recently published study showed that black people are almost four times more likely to be arrested for cannabis possession than white people in the U.S. The difference between white and black cannabis arrests rose by over 300% in 20 U.S. counties between 2010 and 2018 according to that same study, and some of the states with the worst numbers in terms of this racial disparity have since legalized recreate adult use cannabis, which means that the issue does not have to do with our overall attitude towards cannabis, but much more about the racial inequality.

And in fact, in many of those arrest reports of black people, the reasons about why they were arrested tend to remain vague and bizarre. This was according to a lawyer familiar with these cases. Just remember that there's still 700,000 cannabis related arrests made each year. So, as we keep pushing forward, it's just really incumbent upon all of us to stay aware and informed about what we are pushing forward.

Before we begin a brief disclaimer. Nothing on this podcast should be taken as investment advice of any sort. I'm long, Trulieve (OTCQX:TCNNF), Khiron (OTCQX:KHRNF), IsraCann Biosciences (OTCPK:ISCNF), the parent company and Ayr Strategies (OTCQX:AYRWF). You can subscribe to us on Libsyn, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play and Stitcher. Danny and Dr. Jason, welcome to the Cannabis Investing Podcast. Really great to have you guys on the show. Thank you so much for joining us.

Jason Mitchell: Awesome. Thank you for having us.

Danny Brody: Thank you for having us.

RS: So, Danny, if you want to start and then Dr. Jason, if you guys want to tell listeners how you guys got involved and headed to the cannabis industry?

DB: Yeah, you bet. So, I mean, I've been in the cannabis industry for probably seven or eight years now. And, we originally got involved with Hempfusion about three years ago. And, I come from the finance side, I come from the capital raising side. And what really drew us to Hempfusion was Jason. I mean, when we first met him, he was in over 3000 stores, he had over 30 products on the shelves.

And just this really incredible story with this foundation that was so well laid, all he needed to do was raise capital to really start to scale that and that's exactly what we did. So, we ended up putting in $36 million - a total of $42 million, sorry last year during I guess 2019. Now, we just raised another $17 million on the IPO. So, we've invested, we put $59 million into the company over the past couple years, and really started to scale it. So, it is really unique opportunity, incredible timing. And it all starts with Jason. So...

RS: Love it. Jason, that's a perfect segue to you getting started, take it from there.

JM: Absolutely, how I got into cannabis was quite actually a little bit different of a path. If I were to take it back just a second, in 2011, I was diagnosed with a disease called ulcerative colitis. And, it was rather a very difficult time for a disease that I was dealing with. I was a Board-Certified Naturopathic doctor, didn't - couldn't help myself, right. And I had to have conventional medical treatment and things of that nature.

And unfortunately, the medical treatment came with it so many of these side effects that were rather challenging. And if anybody came to me at that point and told me that cannabis or hemp or CBD or something of that nature could have helped me, I would have rejected it on its face. Because when I was in naturopathic medical school, they didn't teach about the endocannabinoid system.

Now I want to be very clear, Hemp and CBD didn't cure my disease, but it is what has inspired me to start this mission that has now led us here to this day. And the way I grew up as a child in sixth grade, I lived next door to Dr. and Ms. Davis, who are Nancy Reagan's parents. And so, when she was the First Lady, so she's the Say no to drugs Queen, right. And so, I had it ingrained in my head from childhood and I'd had breakfast with her in the morning when I was a little kid.

So, I came by it very honestly, that I would debate you if you told me cannabis was even beneficial until I got sick. And so, when I discovered the endocannabinoid system was by virtue of a terpene, called beta-caryophyllene, and it's something found in clove and black pepper. So, it was not offensive to my original thoughts, right.

So, it's kind of interesting. So, I looked at it and then I ended up learning about the endocannabinoid system. And then oh, no, now, I have to apologize to everybody I offended that maybe I was completely dead wrong. And so apologetically, at one point, Hempfusion became a company. But before I did that, in 2013, I started Probulin. Microbiology and immunology are like my expertise, is what I love.

Because the gut microbiome is a really interesting place that not only does it serve a purpose for health and wellness, but there's a lot of opportunity for future research on what it's doing, not only for our physical wellbeing, but our emotional wellbeing. And so, there's so many really wonderful things there. And building Probulin, a foundation that would truly help people was meaningful.

I mean, I left a successful career to build something that was uncertain. Who knows, right? I'm going after some, some really big competitors that have huge deep pockets, mega agribusinesses. And everybody told me, oh, you're going to fail? Well, we didn't. Probulin is now one of the top selling brands, according to SPINS data in the natural products industry, and we're expanding from there.

Well, in 2015, I met three gentlemen Ian Dequeiroz, Andrew Oliver and Ryan Griffith. And together with my exploration on cannabis and CBD up to that point was somewhat limited on what I could do myself in research because when I was in school, they didn't teach about the endocannabinoid system. And it was still a relatively new discovery. Sadly, they still don't teach it in medical school yet, so not very often anyway.

And so, when I met these partners, I got exposed because they were really truly into the cannabis industry. And so, it helped me take some of the scientific stuff I knew. And then we together started a company, but we built it on one primary foundation. And that was compliance. Anytime you're heading towards the ending of prohibition on anything, if you think you're going to do it in a Wild West fashion, you will be able to get away with it for a period of time, but that will come to a very abrupt end.

You have to have a significant preparedness for regulations. It's going to happen whether you - you can't just deny it away, you can't explain it away, the FDA is going to have a say, the DEA is going to have a say. And so, we took a very different approach to the market. So that's where we're at today. And our compliance portfolio is second to no one. And we're very prepared for what we're now calling CBD 2.0. I'd love to share more about it.

But that's how it happened, really. And it was a very honest, emotional, passionate mission to help people that was inspired by my own troubles. And that's a fact. And that's just where it was. Now, like I said, I want to be very clear, our products didn't cure me. They didn't even exist. But it was what inspired me, because I want to make sure people have a really true understanding of where we're heading. I think there's a lot of hope not only in probiotics, but also hemp, so excited.

RS: I'm interested, I hear from a lot of people that got started in the cannabis industry, not necessarily from the medical - like from the medical field, but just from their own illness or sickness and seeing the power of cannabis. Again, not healing them, but affording them a lot of benefit, and definitely helping them a tremendous amount.

I'm curious like coming from the medical side of things, and I have a bit of a bias because I grew up in a house where we were taught that naturopaths are the best doctors. So, with that in mind, giving you the props that I think you deserve coming at medicine from that perspective. The fact that your views changed, do you now approach the medical community kind of with that in mind? And do you feel a lot more reception because of the fact that you came from this other side or because of the fact that your experience is personal and it comes from that place?

JM: Absolutely. Well, so the medical background that I have is not about seeing patients. It's about research, development, education, and building technologies, and so forth. So, I'm coming at it from a very different place. I'm too empathetic, to be a practitioner. I'll make myself sick, trying to help others. So, I'm not really good at that. That's not my gift.

My gift is designing and teaching so that others can expand their knowledge on something. And so, the fact that I was able to come, if you ever been in a political discussion with somebody that you just don't win. Well, the fact that I was that intense against cannabis, and the fact that I turned the corner, I think, makes me that much more passionate about our mission.

And that what's really about, our mission isn't just CBD, by the way, not at all. It's not just, CBD is one cannabinoid amongst hundreds potentially that we know at least over 100 exist. And then terpenes, and flavonoids, and so, CBD is the tip of the iceberg. It's just the head of the needle, and then we are looking at expanding it. So yes, it inspires everything that we do.

I mean, literally, I'm the nerd, right. So, I'm a total nerd, I design the products. I'm very passionate about that. I see such a bright future and what can happen here. And I think that what people are excited about today isn't even a shred of what's going to happen tomorrow. Not even close. Like there is not a…

DB: Jason, I mean, you've launched over 300 products since your last company…

JM: Yeah well, I've launched a total of about between 300 and 400 products, not only for the last company that I ran into through a successful acquisition by Kikkoman Foods in 2006. But I also launched other products in the industry for other companies, because it's a passion of mine, because I really, truly believe in doing things right. Not always right away. But right.

It's important that it be done, right. And unfortunately, in the hemp and CBD space, a lot of people were doing it right away, and weren't necessarily focused on doing it right. We have over 35…Yeah, go ahead.

RS: No, no, you…

JM: No, there's over 3500 companies, and I would tell you less than maybe a handful of doing it right. And that's just my humble opinion. And I know that most of those companies would probably hate me for saying that. But I don't mean it in a negative way. I mean it and to inspire them to say dig deeper. It's our responsibility, bringing something new and innovative to the marketplace, something that has as much hope as this does, it's our responsibility as companies to do what's right, is to preserve safety for the consumer.

And to make sure that we're doing the very best thing that we can to build something that not only is a tool for their health and wellness, but also is safe for them to consume and prove it. And it's the only thing the FDA really wants, they want proof. And we've spent the last 2.5, 3 years building that proof and probably have one of the most robust regulatory portfolios that I think anybody has, period. And so, it's really important, and I think it's our responsibility.

DB: And just to jump in there for a sec, I mean, that's one of the biggest pillars of this entire company that drew me and my team as an investor team to Hempfusion in the beginning. It's Jason's compliance background, and setting the tone for the entire company to scale off of that highly compliant.

And it's just such an interesting and unique new product, right. It's we haven't seen it before. So, the fact that is deregulating around the world like Jason said, we want to do it right. And his background and his skill set allows us to do exactly that.

JM: Well, it's funny, I say this all the time to our team, I'm sorry. I know you had - doing it right is better than doing it right away. And it would be great if they could both happen at the same time. But if patience was a currency, I'd be a billionaire. So,

RS: Boom, you can always cut me off if you're going to be dropping pearls, like I have no idea you're going to be dropping pearls. Very good, very well said. It's interesting, I mean, I feel like since starting this podcast, the first people that I would talk to were expanding, expanding, expanding, and I even remember talking to some executives being like, we're going to push up against the compliance, we're going to push up against the regulators and see how far we can get away with things and see how far we can take it.

And now, I think that we're seeing as consumers, as viewers of the industry, very clearly the companies that are paying the most attention to compliance and regulation, it's very clear that they already have a way Head Start with companies that are like, okay, we're going to wait for this, every T crossed, and every I dotted before we have everything in place. We want the laws to be exactly on the books and exactly know what to do.

But I think, what you guys are saying is evidently true, in terms of that's what you need to bring to the marketplace in terms of consumers and in terms of the regulators.

JM: Well, actually what we're doing is instead of pushing up against the law. Because see, the laws exist, whether we agree with them or not, the spirit of the law is what's most important. And it is to protect consumers. And that's what the FDA's job is.

Now, I might take issue with some of the rules, some of their laws. But that's my own personal opinion, that's subjective. But the objective view of looking at this from the outside looking in, that is the rule. And so, if there are real parameters around safety and around guidance on how things should be introduced, I think that we should comply. And if we want to inspire the FDA to make change, that's fine.

I had somebody tell me in the very beginning, when we first started many, many years ago, he said, I'm building a war chest so we can fight the FDA. And I said, so what are you going to do when they lock up your bank accounts, because you're selling something that you can't do that more chest will be unavailable to you. So, what are you going to do then? And I said, there has to be a right path.

And where we saw this most evident is when merchant services started not allowing people to use credit cards to buy anything, and then you're sitting there going, now you can't even get your money. Like you can't even collect your money. And so, I'm like, that's not the right way. So, we got involved in organizations like the U.S. Hemp Roundtable and became an advocate for change. An advocate for accountability, an advocate for holding us as companies accountable so that we can show a good track record of an industry that can manage itself.

And that can be trusted by the FDA to actually hold within it the way to forward with products like this so that they can see a path and build regulation around it and say, we trust these organizations. The problem is 3500 companies came out of nowhere, doing whatever the heck they wanted with literally zero safety data.

When I can tell you I'm one of only three companies that I know of that have completed all of the required safety toxicology studies required under the FDA Red Book 2000 guidelines by the FDA for graphs, which is generally recognized as safe. Now, we haven't published our graphs yet. And there's a reason. You want to do that at the right moment. It's important, and I won't get into that.

But anyway, we've done all the toxicology data, we've even done complete toxicology data on our topicals, nobody's done that. Because we want to make sure that there is absolutely zero question as the products, we offer marketplace that they're safe. Now, I will tell you where this is winning? Retailers. Retailers are like, wow, you're the only one talking like this. Why? Why aren't others talking like this?

They're all talking about how big this industry is going to be. And you're going to miss out if you don't have it on the shelves. Well, I'm not going to risk selling billions of dollars of produce milk and eggs so that I can sell millions of dollars of CBD. Unless I know I'm not risking my business. I mean, there are risk, there are mega, mega businesses. And so, I realized that that was going to be the case. And we paved this a long time ago.

And believe it or not, it takes over two and a half years to finish these tox studies. So, anybody that hasn't done it, it's going to be a problem. But we're, we sit as an executive board member on the U.S. Hemp Roundtable, which I'm very proud to say this, my Chief Marketing Officer, Ola Lessard, she is now the first woman president of the U.S. Hemp Roundtable and the first two term president period of the U.S. Hemp Roundtable.

DB: That's huge.

JM: Amazing woman. She's just a powerful advocate for change. She's worked in DC during the ABA American Disabilities Act and so forth. So, she's surely an intelligent human being about advocacy and change. And I sit on the Legal and Science Committee, because I advocated my seat when she joined our team. So, I was like, you are the one.

Like, because that's just the way it should be. And we're trying to bring about change by getting involved in associations that rising tide floats, all ships that should float, the rest of the ship should think right so and, it's not all ships should float and not all ships should ride on the coattails of others. They should be inspired to change so that we all do something responsible. And that's what will build a huge future in this industry.

DB: Jason, let's - sorry Jason, let's relate that back to these retailers. I mean, we've got these OTC drug lists and topical products that are we're probably only one of a handful of companies that are actually selling these products in these large-scale retailers, food and drug, mass. Actually, that's a huge advantage for us.

JM: Well, if we wanted to talk about products, I can share that with you, we took a different approach, right. If you look at what happened in 2019 that was the first push into Food, Drug and Mass with Walgreens, CVS and some of the bigger players and they went only with topicals in limited states, right.

But if you saw what happened, they were releasing cosmetics and cosmetics come with a really restricted label claim language that you can use and the FDA has only ever used a claim language enforcement as their only area of enforcement in CBD so far. They haven't banned anything. They've just gone after people that make illegal unsubstantiated health claims. Well, sure enough, the products that hit the market, the number one reason why people are buying CBD is for pain.

Well, companies went out with a cosmetic and made pain claims implied and explicit. And so, I looked at it and go, Wow, you're going to get busted. And sure enough, there were warning letters that happened that summer and ever been - warning letter is kind of like a tattoo. It's you can maybe laser it off, but you never get rid of it. Right? Like it's always going to stick there in your record.

So, I said no, we're going to take a different approach and we created a line of OTC drug listed products. That means on the FDA drug registry, these products are listed as drugs, they have NDC numbers, National Drug Code numbers. Now, this is a painful process, financially challenging. And like I said, patients, oh my gosh, like I said, I'd be a billionaire. And the amount of regulatory heavy lifting that we had to do to get through that process, and we now have eight products.

And as a result, one of the fifth largest FDM grocery retailer in the United States now sells these products in about 800 stores. And we're the number one brand in both units and dollars. So, it's just it pays off to be patient and to be just make sure you always do it right, not right away and be incremental, there's a longevity to this business if we do it right. So,

RS: I think that speaks to executives. And I think it also speaks to investors in this industry, I think patience pays off, and incremental steps. And there's I think, everybody's really excited as you said about, like, what the business what lies ahead for this business, I think everybody that's paying attention sees these high numbers and green roads ahead higher than is even predicted.

But I think we all need to have patience, and we all need to take it incrementally, I think, nothing's going to be like a Grand Slam, I think there's doubles and triples, and sometimes singles. And, what have you? I'm curious. I mean, I would also encourage listeners, I think, what's great about talking to companies is you see the difference between some things.

And we were talking when we first got on about how it's obvious before we started recording kind of your corporate culture that seems to come through. Also, I think I would encourage listeners to go to your website, you specifically Dr. Jason has like a great video that explains everything. And you're very, I love when companies are extremely forthcoming.

Because I really feel like they're really paying attention to everything, and they're putting everything out there. And there's really nothing to kind of hide or obfuscate. And it seems that that's very much what you guys are doing. And a lot of companies talk about QR codes. And you guys have gone one step further than that, as you've described. I'm curious, like, what's your take on the FDA after passing the Hemp Bill in 2018?

Do you think it's just that's the way that things work out? Like it's not a clear path? It's all these twists and turns? And within that, I imagine that you have some complaints about how it's been rolled out. But do you subscribe to the notion that you're just going to keep pushing until they're inspired to kind of, I guess, do it the right way in your words.

JM: So, as a company, we have a philosophy, and it's something that I put in play a long time ago, and its radical transparency. There is nothing that you can ask our company that we won't share, other than maybe proprietary things that are kind of important to us personally on what gives us an advantage, like, I'm not going to give those things but on my probiotic company Probulin, or the Hempfusion products, which by the way, are awesome products, I love them. I'm very proud of that work.

But we'll share any of the data testing things of that nature matters not to us, you want to know what happens, we'll show you everything good or bad. Not everything's perfect. But luckily for us, we've had a really amazing track record of perfection in manufacturing. So, we're very lucky that way. But in all honesty, we'll share everything.

Now as it relates to the FDA. I empathize with their position on certain points, because they have not been afforded the opportunity to have access to much data that would suggest anything that this product - these products are safe. And that's one thing they've been asking for. And in fact, some of the data that exists through GW Pharma, with their drug application and so forth, showed that there was the potential of toxicology.

And so, they do come at it from a very honest place. However, I think that they're abstaining from comment in any other way other than that just to reinforce the position that it's not legal of this, that or the other, I think that's irresponsible as well. I think that you should collectively work very difficult, go through the difficult task of working hard at creating your position, and then making it known so that we can all move forward because there's an industry waiting with bated breath to decide what are these regulations?

But here's where the ignorance of the industry comes in. All these companies that have joined into the hemp CBD space and what we like to call the green rush, right, everybody jumped in. They were wholly ignorant of the fact that there is something called the Code of Federal Regulations. There is something called Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act, there is something called the Food and Drug Cosmetic Act.

There are already governance positioning legal statutes that exists that tell you exactly how this is going to play out. And sitting on the U.S. Hemp Roundtable seeing the feedback from the special working group inside the FDA on CBD and their comments, basically, they're not going to invent new rules. They're just going to flat out say, this dietary supplement rules still exist.

And where I can give you an example is that, there's something called the Grandfather Clause of 1994, that any ingredients that were introduced after 1994 they have to - you have to submit a process called the MDI end process or MDI, which is a new dietary ingredient. Meaning, it came later. Anything before '94 was called an old dietary ingredient was automatically de facto accepted.

But anything after needed to be, you need to prove that it's okay. And I don't think that's terrible. And you know what they're saying today, guess what the MDI in process is probably going to be a requirement. And so that requires toxicology. You can look at previous supplements in history, such as red yeast rice that was flying in the face of the stat and drugs because what they were selling was too similar to the drug.

And so, you can see how they handled that. Well, CBD they're questioning whether it's too similar to the drug that's on the market. And so, there are these stipulations that history is already told you what is going to be required. And if people just took two minutes to figure that out, with a good legal representation, you would already have your path forward, and this industry would be a whole lot more forward.

And so, there is a Senate Bill right now. It's called H.R.8179. I don't know that it will remain that name, but it's currently in the works with over 30 sponsors in the House and Senate. And it's a bipartisan sponsorship. It's not just everybody, there's a lot of comments about well, the Republicans, and now it's a complete democratic administration, and that it's going to be better for cannabis.

I'll be honest with you I believe that there's a pretty large bipartisan belief that hemp and cannabis need to be approved. They're just finding the right correlated path and compelling but I do believe it seems to be that the Democratic administration is a little bit more in favor, but I don't suggest that the republicans are. And so, when we look at this, I say you know what, this means that this is a really good thing.

And the Senate Bill 8179 is a legal mechanism that will compel the FDA to speak. And that I believe that whether they do it on their own or are compelled by Congress, it's going to happen. And if I had to guess three to six months. Now, I could be wrong by a year, because it's anybody's guess it's a bit of an elusive unicorn at the moment.

But we know that if you're prepared for it, and you have all of your things ready, all of your regulatory compliance portfolio built, and you're ready not only for the domestic market, by the way, but for the international market, you're going to be a heck of a lot more forward than other companies, because I believe there hasn't been a Coke or Pepsi established yet.

What I mean, there hasn't been a leader, even though there are companies that are far bigger than us, far bigger, no problem, they're bigger. I could be as big or bigger than them in one year, if all the things go in the right way and we have the winds blow in one way. You can also lose everything in one year, if it blows in a different way and see, if you're prepared, the wind's going to blow in favor. And so,

DB: That's also one of the unique - that's one of the unique things that the CBD industry, Jason is the fact that there is those 3600 companies and if you look at the market size, and start comparing the largest companies' revenues to the market size, well guess what, they only control 2% or 3% of the entire market, right.

JM: Yeah.

DB: You look at any traditional CPG industry, there's only going to be three to five majors that control 80% of the market. So, it's still such a fragmented market, where we have the opportunity to - exactly we have the opportunity to take that for the grabs, right.

JM: I believe that it's still up for grabs for ownership. And it's and you can have wonderful products, you can have great marketing, you can have an amazing team, you can have the right pricing, the right dosing, everything of that nature, all the right potencies all the right products positioned right for the consumer, right.

It comes down to regulatory preparedness at this stage. Because remember, 2018, we ended prohibition on hemp, but the FDA came out and said not in supplements, not in food, not in beverage. Well, that was only because there was a direct opposition to a lack of data. Now, I'll tell you another thing that we did, we partnered last year with Validcare. And it was just reported yesterday the study was complete. I'm so excited, results are being revealed this month, and I cannot even tell you how excited I am to see these results.

Last year, we partnered as a co-sponsor co-funder through Validcare in the largest human observation of liver and male reproductive toxicology studies that's ever been done on CBD or at least thought to be the largest ever been done. And this was at the request of the FDA. And the FDA even gave some feedback on the protocol to suggest that it was something that they'd be willing to look at, right from a safety protocol.

And this is a human safety data, real world application of use. And it was a year-long program. And we're done. The results are going to be public this month. I had a meeting with them yesterday. And they said, we are very encouraged by the initial findings and results. And so, we're pretty excited. They're using actually our products, along with other company's products, too. But they're using our products in the study, and so very, very special.

And so, that means not only we have tox data, but we have real world human application. And we're going to be able to satisfy that. And we're one of the select few companies that had the foresight to see this is important. Because this is what builds leaders, in my opinion.

RS: It's really exciting to see all the data start to come out because I think we all agree that that's what's going to build and build the backbone of this industry and make it stronger. What's that?

JM: Integrity.

RS: Integrity? Yeah. Absolutely.

JM: Consumer trust comes from the belief that companies are doing things correctly.

RS: Absolutely. So, the other strategy that I'm interested in you talking to listeners about and one that I really liked how open you guys are about this being a strategy is kind of navigating these regulations and using Probulin as what you guys call your Trojan horse strategy. Talk to us about what you guys see there?

JM: So, here's the deal. Probulin doesn't have CBD, has nothing to do with CBD. And is a successful company in its own right. And is it growing, expanding, consumers love it. In fact, in Sprouts Farmers Market, we're the number two shelf stable probiotic in the set. And that's a really good thing, because Sprouts is a very natural chain in the natural products industry, very successful. They're an amazing partner of ours, by the way, we love them to death.

And when we look at this, we're like, okay, there are certain retailers. There are certain international locations that do not allow hemp yet, but they're in the conversations because they know at some point, this will come to pass and they will be in the business, whether it be to the smallest retailer to the largest organizations like Amazon (AMZN).

So, we look at this we go, okay, we know that there are companies that love probiotics, probiotics are a global thing. It's a multi-billion-dollar chant on category, and that nobody has really an issue with probiotics. So, we utilize Probulin and all of its wonderful details and the great products and the technology and everything that we have to make them better than other probiotics. And we get into the conversation, because they'll do business with us there.

And then we stay active in the conversation with them, always keeping hemp to the forefront of their mind that we are here, we're present, we're ready and be able to involve ourselves with them. And we're already a registered and accepted vendor. And so, when the day comes, they don't have any work to do. All they have to do is introduce the products, because it's far easier when you're already a customer to a retailer or an organization than it is to try to create that from scratch.

And believe me, when I tell you these retailers, especially in the eyes of COVID have had so many challenges of their own, the easier you can make it for them, the more likely they are to actually add it to their set and expose you to their consumers. Because they believe - as long as they believe in you, and you're doing it right, but it makes it easier for them. So yeah, a bit of a Trojan horse. We're there. We're ready. We're present. And we're always in the conversation.

RS: And really practical, right? I mean, I think sometimes people think it's like rocket science. And it's just like, really practical applications I think that you guys are pursuing. Danny, I'd love to hear your thoughts on you guys having no debt. I believe you're second in the industry in terms of your cash position.

Talk to us about what investors are looking at you guys just went public, first of all, congratulations. So, it's…

DB: Thank you.

RS: So, it's very - I know, from investors, how excited they are to see you guys on the public markets in the U.S. So, talk to me, I think about that decision and also about where you guys are financially and what investors can look for there?

DB: Yeah, I mean, we've got kind of everything coming together. It's sort of the perfect storm as I like to call it. We've got the products now, we've got the distribution, we're now in eight countries with either purchase orders or selling in. So, we've got the international side. And we've got the team to do it with a strong foundation on compliance.

So, when we brought Hempfusion to market, we're the largest U.S. CBD company IPO to-date on the TSX, we went to the straight to the senior Stock Exchange, we didn't do any up-listing. We just went straight to the most senior stock exchange in Canada, which is the most preeminent Stock Exchange probably in the world for cannabis and hemp related companies.

And we did a $17 million IPO right so we're very well capitalized, like you said, we've got the second largest cash position in the entire CBD industry with, just about $30 million in cash U.S. dollars, we're trading in U.S. dollars as well. So, U.S. company, everything is U.S. But now it just comes down to scaling. So, we've got the capital to do it, we've got an incredibly exciting story that investors seem to just really be enjoying.

I mean, we priced our IPO at $1. We're trading at an all-time high today of about 2.28, the last time I checked. So, investors seem to be really enjoying the story. And now it's just, we want to bring everything together to start kind of sharing that story, telling that story, letting everyone know where we're going. And that's new product lines, that's new distribution channels, that's new stores that we're getting into, there's new countries, there's new team members.

So, it's really the succeeding, everything kind of coming together at once to really just start scaling the company.

RS: And are you guys looking in terms of the next - You talked about CBD 2.0. Like, what's your growth strategy? I mean, you talked about launching new products and getting more into the market. But what's your kind of like year to two-year plan? Like, if we're talking in the next year, if we're talking in the next two years, what are we talking about there?

JM: So, one of the most important things obviously is I can't give any guidance right. Like, but what we have done physically is over the last year especially in the time of during this last COVID year if we call it that put an asterisk by it. Is that we took that time to be very strategic and look inward. And we're very - take a tremendous amount of introspection to say okay, what is it that we can do better? How can we formulate this? We formulated what we now believed to be a very solid annual operating plan of exactly how we're going to execute our strategy. And the primary five channels are we're looking at expansion within the natural products industry, but that's very well, there's a lot of brands there. And so it's very competitive. So that's going to be incremental change and incremental growth, which is still very, very important.

Looking at the Food, Drug and Mass big box, meaning the big grocery store chains, and so forth, they are now showing a tremendous amount of interest. And so, investing in there, and we are the number one brand, both in units and dollars currently in that set. So, we're very excited about that.

Looking at the doctor practitioner space is a really unique marketplace, because it is a doctor-patient relationship. And it's not a selling relationship. It's a trust relationship for care. And so, looking at tools like supplements, like probiotics, or hemp derived CBD or any other supplements, well, doctors have a unique rapport with their patients, or what I would call their engaged customers, if you will.

And so, that's a really interesting space. Very difficult, we signed a fully executed agreement with Fullscript Natural Partners, and are now actively selling through their organization to the doctor practitioner networks. So that was a huge feather in our cap that's already passed. It's awesome. And that was as of February 2, very new.

We are also looking into the convenience marketplace. We have the largest broker network, which is called Cross Mark that is helping us access the convenience market. Now there's many brands that have already accessed the convenience market. But believe it or not, there are a lot of the chains that have said well, where we started isn't working for us and we need new life in there, we need something different.

And so, we looked at the market and created products that are very specific for that grab and go impulse buy, to make sure that it drives trial and drives use and so very excited about what's coming. In fact, those are gummies. And we're really excited about those. And then also e-commerce, now that single-handedly is probably one of the largest investments we're making, because it is the biggest opportunity.

If you look at some of the more successful companies. And if you look at Brightfield data, more than half of the purchases on products related to CBD are online. More than half. Not in bricks and mortar and bricks and mortar is our expertise. So currently, only about 6% of our sales are online. And we have over 4000 locations that we're currently doing business in. So, it's not as though we don't have distribution, we do, actually doing okay.

But the opportunity to expand digitally is important. Now what was really cool about this is building the right team. When you have the right products priced correctly with the right message and you can insert the right team to execute strategy is a winning proposition as long as you are backed by solid science and compliance.

We have attracted because of all the things that we're doing. Probably one of the most amazing digital teams that came from another competing company that is one of the most successful online retailers for CBD, and understand all the unique tactics that have to be taken. Because you can't use your normal selling platforms like Google and Facebook and so forth, at least not right now. You can't use Amazon.

And so, you have to use all these alternate tactics. This entire team came to us and said, we believe in you guys, we want to be here. And so, we now have them helping us build this out. And so, we are unbelievably excited with the traction we've already made in getting people to visit us and so forth and working on conversions and all these other things.

Just to give you a little titbit with Probulin, we recently had a new strategy on Amazon. And at the beginning of January, we had a ROAs of about 8.54. That's a return on advertising spend. So, for every dollar you spend, we got $8.54 of revenue. Now as you spend more your ROAs goes down, typically you end up somewhere around $2 to $3 if you're doing well. Well, at the end of January with a little more spending, we were still at $6.60 ROAs.

So, we're really fine tuning our digital and online abilities to access consumers in a different way. And so that's really exciting. Now, the only other thing I'll share is internationally, the expansion there is very methodical. Built in compliance, we just recently launched into Ireland with the full acknowledgement of the Food Safety Authority of Ireland with all proper EU compliant labels.

And we're going to take that as our jump across over to the UK, which is one of the largest markets in Europe, for CBD. In fact, I think it is the largest next to Germany is number two, and then everybody else collectively doesn't even come as big as either one of them. So, we're doing this very methodically and only doing it in the most compliant fashion. So, that's our strategy if I were to give it to you without giving any forward-looking statements or things of that nature, but that is what we're doing. And we're very, very optimistic about what's about to happen.

RS: That's great. That team literally they contacted you and wanted to come work for you because they believed in your message?

JM: Well, I got to be honest, it was, blew me away too. They came to us through Danny and his team, where they met. And then they heard a little bit about us. And then I got on the phone with one of their leads. In fact, one of the leads was actually one of the founders of that company. And they had departed and for whatever reason, I don't want to get into that.

But then they came to me and they weren't sure, but then they talked to me and we had a conversation and I shared with them what we're doing and what we're about and yeah, we're not as big as some of the other companies, but we're bigger than a lot of the others. And who cares, whatever the dollars are, because I don't care - what your sales are today don't matter. It's what you do tomorrow. And next year, there's going to matter.

And I'm going to tell you right now, that is the fact. Because there are companies that had as much as $53 million $55 million in sales, they now dropped dramatically, they fell apart because they weren't prepared for what's coming. We're now on that nice trend of heading in the right direction. Very exciting. And once we went through and said, this is what we have, this is what we're doing and this is why we're doing it. They're like we're in.

No, we're in and it was just - and now they I mean, honestly, I've never seen a team just get so entrenched into doing it and have done so much work in the last 60 days that I'm just sitting there going, why do I deserve this? Right, like, I mean, and I think we have a really amazing team. And I think it's because we truly care about our people.

We care about our environment, even during COVID, we didn't go laying a bunch of people off, we protected them. And we found ways to become more efficient. And in fact, we did away with our corporate office. I call corporate offices, a monument to your success. But it's also a drain on the cash capital, I'd rather be more capital efficient moving forward. So, we're all work from home, and work remote.

And what's amazing is expands our ability to access good talent all around the United States, or for the world for that matter. And so, we don't have any limitations on the best talent, and then we treat them well and with respect and stay connected. And so, I don't know, I think we got a good formula here.

RS: You know, sometimes when I'm talking to a company, I tell listeners, listen to what they're saying, this is an episode. Listen to what these guys are saying. They're giving all the points, I think you guys are given all the points on how to make a successful company, especially, especially in this market.

I mean, all those points are true, like waiting for the right time, being patient, getting set up correctly, I think all those are true. And then you get to a point where it kind of all pays off and like, look at this week with the GW Pharma (GWPH) Jazz (JAZZ) deal. You guys going public, it was like every day was like CBD, CBD, CBD, CBD. And you guys are like right now at the top of that conversation, how much excitement does that bring to the whole sector? The GW Pharma deal? Or are you guys only excited about your own stuff? You can say that here.

JM: Well, I mean, to be honest, go ahead, Danny.

DB: No, no, I'll just say a quick comment and pass it to Jason. But I mean, the acquisition of GW Pharma for $7.6 billion is a huge kickstarter for the industry. And how that relates to Hempfusion is the fact that they have patented products. We have patented products. We have proprietary delivery methods. We have science backed studies happening right now.

It's a completely science backed company, as you can hear from Jason speaking about it. But I mean, the fact of the matter is, is there's a lot of similarities here and the big fish are now circling. So, and it happens with any hyper growth industry, you go through these different phases, the markets jump, the markets contract, they jump again. And then consolidation starts to come in, right once you reduce those multiples to more reasonable levels, and you can be acquired.

But the fact is, it was the big fish circling, GW being acquired, it all kind of plays hand-in-hand. So, what's at stake here? And, that's, I would think that's the ultimate goal is to get this - get to have our company acquired it in a few years or something, but it all plays into a very exciting market for investors.

JM: If your mission is not rooted in greed, but your mission is rooted in a true principle of expanding, or I should say, offering exposure to things that truly help people, and you can actually grow a company through an honest heart, it's okay to be a capitalist. But if your view is only capitalism, and it's only dollars, and…

DB: Conscious capital.

JM: What's that?

DB: Conscious capital.

JM: Conscious capital.

RS: Profit and purpose.

JM: Yeah. Absolutely. If you can do that and expand properly, an acquisition or a consolidation or a collaboration or a joint venture, all of these things are very important. Never think that from an ego perspective that you have it all figured out, you don't need anybody else to help you.

I've been saying it in this industry for the last couple years and I said, wait, just wait, you're going to see a point where everything's going to happen, it's going to come to where everybody thinks they're the best and then they find out maybe not, maybe we've got a lot of work to do. And then all of a sudden consolidation is going to happen.

You saw that last year as one of the first things, not just this GW thing, but last year you saw Harmony Hemp be acquired by Abacus, which is CBD Medic. And then see, Abacus was then acquired by Charlotte's Web (OTCQX:CWBHF) and then, because what you don't have if you can't make it quick, you acquire it. And then you become a better, stronger, more virally company.

We have assets that companies 20 times our size, only wish they had. You know what I mean? And so, for us, we look at it as we know that, are we perfect at everything? No, we're perfect at a lot of things. And I think we're really good. And we're going to stay good and tried true at that. And when consolidation comes as an opportunity, I mean, those are really good things to actually expand consciously.

How we can help people better? And I think, the bigger the more eyeballs we put on it. So, I'm always encouraged by when I see things like that. I don't think it's bad at all. And the more interest in cannabis in general, the more interest in more specifically hemp derived CBD. I think it's better for everyone, because then it shows the political institutions that they don't really have a choice, the jack is out of the box, you're not getting it back in, right, like, so let's just embrace this and make sure that we operate correctly, responsibly and ethically.

RS: Absolutely, absolutely. Do you see it? Do you have a preference if that acquire or if that consolidation comes from a certain sector? Does that matter to you guys, or it's the people involved that matter more than that?

JM: Believe it or not, for me and I can only speak as the CEO and as the person that founded this company, and really just looks at it in the love in my heart, and I know that every day, you're going to have opinion. I want to make sure it's the right match. It's like dating. Not every date is going to work and you're not going to marry everyone, hopefully you only marry once, right? And so, I really want it to be the right partner, one that we can offer the right assistance to them. And they can also offer us the right opportunity to grow and expand and to be something or maybe we get so big that we become the acquirer.

And so, I don't think either one of those are off the table. Because I think there's a lot of opportunity, small, medium and large alike. And so, I would tell you that ethically, it'll always be the ones that I believe are doing it right and then have the right mission. That's more important to me than just about anything.

It isn't just about who has the deepest pockets. That to me, money? I don't know, money is somewhat of a fake transfer, in my opinion. And I know that some people don't like that. But the fact is, is that I think if an organization has the right mission, and there's the right partnership, I think it could be awesome. And I think there's a lot of those out there by the way. So, I'm encouraged by that. I love seeing it.

RS: The other thing I wanted to touch on in terms of like the topicals and the products that you guys are selling is, you guys have a rich terpene profile. I'd love to hear why you think that that's important and why customers should look into that or care about that?

JM: So, I'll take you back to the genesis, how I even got introduced to the cannabis industry at all because I was radically opposed to it, was through a terpene, beta-caryophyllene. It specifically engages CBD receptors - CB2 receptors most abundantly in the gut. And then when you look at CB2 receptors, some of the responsibility of that particular receptor from a homeostasis perspective is in and around inflammatory and immunological action.

And so, when you look at this, you're going huh? Okay, so this is a really cool thing. And it was something that I personally faced. Now again, I got to reiterate, beta-caryophyllene didn't cure me, but it inspired me. And it inspired me to realize how amazing this endocannabinoid system is. And so, terpenes are very much a part of this.

You know, my favorite phrase in medicine is by Hippocrates, Let food be thy medicine. You know what he didn't say? He didn't say let a singular isolated compound identified in the laboratory chemically isolated for some specific reason double blind placebo-controlled study, he didn't say that. He said, Let food be thy medicine. So, when you look at hemp, hemp doesn't just have CBD, it doesn't just have THC. And it doesn't just have the terpene beta-caryophyllen.

There are over 100 compounds that have been identified, and they have come to be known as the entourage effect, not by accident but by fact. Studies published at the Hadassah School of Medicine in the University of Jerusalem, delivered the fact that if you take CBD as an isolate, there is what's called a bell-shaped curve dose response, meaning it'll work and then it'll stop. Well, when you take it as the collective body of all these other actives, not only does it not stop working, but the more you take, the better it works, it seems.

And so, I think we need to take more notice to what nature is doing, as opposed to what we think egotistically in a science community inside a laboratory that we're going to do better. And so, I like how can you improve upon nature? Like, if you tried to reproduce the Grand Canyon, good luck to you. Like, it's not going to happen, nature is quite beautiful.

And so, I look at this plant as an amazing plant. And so, even our raw material, the way that we process it, is low temperature, low pressure. It's all CO2, no solvents, it takes a longer period of time in the homogenization process, which means low heat. And so, we don't go through those extreme heat decarb process, we actually do this long process that's very low, so that it keeps it more natural, closer to its natural fingerprint, so that when you consume our products, they're different.

And that's what we believe in. And while I can still offer you the same number of milligrams of CBD per serving as anybody else at the same or better price, I still can offer you more hemp per serving than anybody else. And so that's what I really love about it. We also believe in only growing organically, because this plant is bioaccumulator, it absorbs around its environment, all things good and all things bad. That means pesticides, herbicides, chemical fertilizers, and things of that nature.

We have complete control from soil to oil. And so, because of that, we have the ability to make sure that these impurities are not there. Now, even though they're there in some companies that are not organic, they have to go through pretty strong remediation processes to get rid of them. We don't, because they're not there to begin with. It's just really special when you take a real honest approach to looking at this plant.

Loving it for what it's good at, and being respectful to what it's not, and then acquiring the best way to process it properly so that it's best for consumers. And it's what we believe we do. Now our raw material is exclusive to us, all the IP is exclusive to us. And even on the probiotic side, I have scientific studies that validate the delivery system that is exclusive to us. And so, it's really important.

DB: Jason, let's take that one step further. Let's just talk about for a second how we have sleep products, we have stress products, we have energy products, or OTC drug lists of topicals are for pain for eczema relief, for acne, can we just talk about that for a sec?

JM: Yeah. Absolutely. So, when we take all that we've done on the technology side and develop these great products, it's also on the regulatory side being able to message this correctly to the consumer. And see, if you were to say insomnia, that's illegal, because that's a drug state or condition and anybody who does that's irresponsible. However, there is a structure and function in your body that elicits something called sleep or relaxation.

And being able to do this through the proper structure function claims that are legally permissible based on having the right research the right ingredients, the name Hempfusion means, hemp fused together with not only hemp, but other things that give you this wide look and saying what's it that the consumer wants? I know they want CBD. But what do they really want? They want to sleep better. They want to deal with their stress better.

They're a little cooped, and they want to have a little more energy. Or if they're experiencing a little bit of pain, they want to be able to address it. And so, I create products that are absolutely aligned with exactly what the consumers are looking for. And making sure that we approach them so that it's very clearly messaged at the right price at the right potency. Our tinctures for example are USDA Organic certified and so that's really important.

All of our hemp, by the way, is DNA verified as industrial hemp. It's not a hybrid of marijuana, which commonly is done here in the U.S. and so forth. And why that's really important. If you look at states like New Jersey, they've already identified three strains of supposed hemp that they're banning, because they know it's a hybrid of marijuana, that's not actually industrial hemp. It's super haze lifter and cherry vanilla and stuff like that.

So, they're even getting down to genetics now. It's getting really, really interesting. All of our strains of hemp are heirloom strains of hemp. And we take a bit of a Bordeaux approach, if you will, to take a wine reference on how we blend strains of hemp together to get the most amazing fingerprint. Because I use five different strains of hemp, which is really awesome. So anyway,

RS: It's interesting, I was going to ask, like in terms of the future of consolidation, there's kind of a bifurcation in the market in terms of the CBD player, even though it's all cannabis, the CBD players and the THC players, do you see them joining like, do you see like a quad - as we go further as the industry keeps on maturing do you see like the THC companies and the CBD hemp companies kind of coming together under one umbrella?

JM: I think that that's inevitable, I think that cannabis at large will actually become one very, very large piece of business. Right now, though they're a little bit at opposing forces to some degree. But I think no matter what good happens on either side helps the entire industry. So, I don't think it's a bad thing. I think it's a really good thing.

But I think we're a little bit far off from THC being a federally legal thing. I think that we still have a lot of work to do. I mean, I have hopes and visions that you can actually get a marijuana bud in the produce aisle. And you can use it because the acid form of the non-heated or treated THC known as THCA, or the acid form has amazing medicinal properties that are awesome, right. Like, that's super cool, and an opportunity.

But I think we're ways away from there. I mean, I would venture a guess at least five years or something, maybe. I mean, I hope sooner I only pray that'll happen. But we got 23 states that have legitimate programs. So, we'll see. But I have no doubt that at some point, this is all going to kind of come together. I think the THC companies are already investing in the CBD side. You've seen that in Curaleaf (OTCPK:CURLF) and the acquisition of Select. You already see this happening. So, I don't think that's not a stretch at all.

DB: Yeah, many of them just added for a sec there. Many of the major Canadian LPs and MSOs have acquired a U.S. CBD arm, right. You look at Canopy (CGC), they've acquired a company, you look at Aurora (ACB), they've acquired a company, you look at Aphria (APHA) and Tilray (TLRY) now. Through Tilray, they've acquired a company. So, a lot of the big major LPs have acquired CBD arms as part of their business.

So, I think there's going to be some more of that in the future. And I think there's just one more thing, there's only really three major CBD companies left as far as my opinion goes, that are truly investable. And we're one of them. So, we'll see what happens.

RS: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I guess I kind of wanted to and you guys talked about the markets that you're getting into and the focus on Europe, are you looking to broaden that into other regions as time goes on?

JM: 100%. So, I will tell you that Probulin for example, is a prominent brand in the UAE, which is an Arab Nation. Arab Nations are extremely conservative. Right now, hemp is not an option. So, again, the Trojan horse theory.

Now, Probulin is a standalone brand there. Regardless, it's not just a Trojan horse, it's like a massive Trojan horse in the sense that it's already a successful brand, one of the prominent brands in the UAE, United Arab Emirates, which includes Abu Dhabi, Sharjah, Ras Al Khaimah and Dubai and so, looking at things like that.

And so, when there is an opportunity, when the doors open, we will already be well involved with partnerships and so forth in most of the countries. So, expansion is absolute. We are definitely doing that. And we're going to expand into different countries also with the use of influencers, exposing our name and branding ahead of products coming in so that people know it as a brand. Like according to Brightfield data in the United States, we're the third most recognized brand.

But when you go to like a country like Australia, we don't sell any products there. We're going to have athletes there that are going to be exposing our brand to their community. And so, people are already going to know the brand before we can get there. And so, it's a really important strategy also globally to use influencers to drive that progression.

RS: Nice, nice. Danny, Dr. Jason, anything you guys want to leave us with before we go? This has been a really fascinating conversation up until now. So, anything you guys want to leave before we go? Welcome to.

DB: I think for me, just the fact that we're a completely retail driven story, it's such a unique thing where you have this crossover, we financed with, we had over 3000 private shareholders when we went public. We've probably got closer to 10,000 now. So, the fact is having that retail audience is creates this really unique synergistic environment where you can have investors that actually want to go and try the product, right.

They go and buy the products. And the same thing happens the other way, where you have people that are buying the products in stores, and they like it so much that they can come and actually buy the company stock. So, we have this massive retail following now, that's actually starting to drive sales, and we're seeing that. But I think for me, it just comes down to getting the story out there as much as we can.

We've got - you can hear from Jason, we've got all the right ingredients to make this thing a massive success. So, we've got lots of news flow lined up, we're going to keep the market very up to speed with all these developments that are happening with us, and just continue to share that message that we're trying to do things the right way.

JM: And I'll end with this is that this is a plant that has so much inspiration within it of hope. And that we've really focused a lot on the activism behind making sure there is a responsible path to the consumer for use to support their own bodies, and that we as a company are committed to nothing less than making the very best - products, but also products that are safe.

And so, we really truly believe in doing it right. And it doesn't always mean that it will happen right away. And so, we are very passionate about that. Our distribution of our products as it relates to the 46 products we have now and the 30 that are coming, that are currently in view, and then others that we're kind of contemplating for the future, I'm very excited and optimistic entering the CBD 2.0.

Because I think CBD 2.0 was built for exactly everything that we made sure is true today. It's built for that. CBD 1.0 is a little wild west. We're a little bit decentralized and kind of fragmented. And now I think we're growing up, we're maturing, I think we've hit puberty in CBD. And so, I think it's about to change. And I think it's really important that we become adults.

And I hate to say it that way, but as we become adults, the industry forms and so I think the future is very bright, and we plan on being a very big part of it.

RS: Couldn't agree more. You know, I had a guest on like six months ago and they were describing the cannabis industry as just about to grow a moustache. So, I think it's…

DB: Very well said, I love it.

RS: Yeah, it's an apt metaphor. This was such a great conversation, really happy to catch up on Hempfusion and talk to you guys about what you guys have planned. I think listeners are going to be really excited to hear from you about more about this company. So, I'm excited to have this conversation with you guys. And I really appreciate it and I want to talk to you guys down the line and see how CBD 2.0 is going.

JM: Well, thank you very much for having us. It was a real honor and we really appreciate it. We look forward to the next time.

DB: Thank you, Rena.

RS: Thanks so much for listening to the Cannabis Investing Podcast. Subscribe or follow us on Seeking Alpha or Libsyn, Apple podcast, Spotify, Google Play or Stitcher. And we'd really appreciate it if you could leave us a review on Apple podcasts. It helps other investors find our show. If you have feedback or questions, we'd love to hear from you at Thanks so much for listening and see you next time.

This article was written by

On The Cannabis Investing Podcast, host Rena Sherbill provides actionable investment insight and the context with which to understand the burgeoning cannabis industry. Interviews with C-level executives, analysts and sector experts give you investment ideas to consider, help you think through your investing approach and give you a new lens with which to understand this ever-growing sector.

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