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Why I Set A $255 Berkshire Hathaway Limit Order To Buy Apple

Sep. 01, 2022 5:37 PM ETApple Inc. (AAPL) Stock, BRK.B StockBRK.A153 Comments

Summary

  • In my mind, there is never a wrong time to buy (or add) Berkshire Hathaway and/or Apple shares under their current conditions.
  • Although occasionally, extreme market movements create obviously better opportunities than most times.
  • Now is such a time. The mispricing of Berkshire's book value brought its valuation to ~1.25x only, quite close to the Buffett price.
  • In particular, such valuation also creates opportunities for investors to a backdoor buy of Apple through Berkshire at heavy discounts (ranging from single-digit owners’ earnings to free).
  • Looking for a portfolio of ideas like this one? Members of Envision Early Retirement get exclusive access to our model portfolio. Learn More »

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BeeBright

Thesis

Readers familiar with my writings know that I have been a perpetual bull for both Berkshire Hathaway (BRK.A) (NYSE:BRK.B) ("BRK") and Apple (NASDAQ:AAPL). My overall view is that both stocks are excellent choices

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This article was written by

Envision Research profile picture
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Envision Research, aka Lucas Ma, has over 15+ years of investment experience and holds a Masters with in Quantitative Investment and a PhD in Mechanical Engineering with a focus on renewable energy, both from Stanford University. He also has 30+ years of hands-on experience in high-tech R&D and consulting, housing sector, credit sector, and actual portfolio management.

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Comments (153)

Envision Research profile picture
Thank you all for reading and for all the thoughtful comments and critiques! A few additional thoughts in response to some of the common themes. And look forward to hearing more from you.

• the use of option
Many people commented that if you have an open limit order anyway, wouldn’t it be better to sell options and get paid while you wait? More specifically, as a reader pointed out below:
For example, with BRK.B currently @ $283/share one might sell a 255Jan23 put and receive ca. $6. If the stock is put at contract expiration, net cost will be $249. If stock closes above $255 at expiration, the put-seller pockets the premium. No guarantees of anything, of course, but if you're a believer in BRK.B @ $255/share, what's not to like?

Option premium gives a nice feeling of getting paid while wait. But it comes with a risk too. Using the example above, If I sell 1x put, the upside is of course the $600 of premium received upfront. But there are downsides too. My capital ($28.3k) will be tied up till Jan 23 and I could not do anything else with it.
For example, I could see a better opportunity than BRK – which is a very likely scenario. Or if BRK price drops to $256 and I am ok to buy it at $256 already.

I view option trading more from the angle of implied volatility and do not use options unless the implied volatilities are way out whack.

• if BRK drops to $255, there will be other better opportunities too.
A few readers pointed out that if BKR gets to 255ish, it probably means the rest of the market got just smashed. And at that point, BKR is not the tastiest treat in town.
It is totally possible, even plausible. And as investors, we all constantly evaluate and reevaluate (which goes back to the potential downside of selling puts).

• Buffett (or BRK) can look after my money than myself
A few readers pointed out another perspective that I did not think of when writing the article. The perspective is that stocks like Berkshire and Carl Icahn’s IEP can look after our money better than ourselves when the going gets tough.
I totally agree. I do not plan to be actively managing my own investments forever either. Like the cliché goes, there are no good old investors (whatever old means for each of us). At some point, it just makes better senses to delegate no matter how much we want to DIY.
six profile picture
@Envision Research Buying BRK is more or less buying "the market" since 2003 BRK and the SP500 have produced very similar results over the 20 year period and the SP500 outperforming on a rolling basis.

If BRK is cheap then it is almost a certainty that the market is cheap too...

It is unlikely BRK will outperform the market on a long term basis. If you are going to "buy and hold" BRK than you might as well buy the market.

Of course, if you really want to outperform the market simply buy a leveraged ETF such as SPXL. If the market is down over 20%, SPXL offers an unparalleled opportunity.
D
@six During years where interest rates were nearly zero , high growth stocks had their day . During times of higher interest rates value stocks that produce lots of cash may be more valued by the market . Value stocks have out performed growth by 4.25% annually since 1927
c
@Dr.Div63 You must neither own Berkshire nor read or listen to what Buffett and Munger have said many times. They have stated that there is no such thing as growth or value stocks. Each is part of the other in evaluating equities.
m
I believe BRKB can decline to 212-216 based purely on chart analysis coupled with the potential of a 40 % equity decline in the S&P 500. The weekly RSI and Stochastics demonstrate bear market bottoms for BRK are approached at 215, which incidentally, is near an open down gap at 211. Of course, this would coincide if we in fact experience 40 % decline, which is entirely possible. The current weekly RSI and Stochastics( as well as others) are currently well short of the historical levels of a bottom.
m
@macbull The weekly also demonstrated a possible breakdown of an H&S pattern; not a buyer at current price
a
Berkshire should be aggressively buying back shares right now.
M
As a retired DGI, neither BRK nor AAPL are a fit in my portfolio, as good as they are.
R
Investment wise, what do you think will happen to BKR.B when WB dies? Of course the company will still be there, but…..
n
@Radcon3 Nothing really per say. the company has been built to run in a decentralized manner. the managers run the day to day operations.
I agree.
$250 ish should be a great buying opportunity.
s
@1504661 Patience, and price between $160-$170.
Mountain Marmot profile picture
The market has a lot of downside in the next couple of months. I am placing a limit order at $265 and will add more on additional weakness.
Disc; long ~5% BRK.B
f
@Mountain Marmot Your limit order at $265 is more realistic than the author's $255 limit order. BRK.B hit a low of $263.68 on June 23, 2022. This year, it hit a low of $265.68 on June 17, $266.88 on June 16, $267.38 on June 22, and $268.57 on June 24. I think a limit order from $266 to $269 would have a better chance of being executed and still offer some upside potential. It is currently at $285.80. I agree the market will see a lot of downside in the next few months. Maybe you'll get BRK.B at your price point!
Mountain Marmot profile picture
@floridascene
Looks like this limit will fill at the open today. I expect it fall with the market in the next few months. I am adding back to shares trimmed in summer at ~$280 when it comprised 23% of portfolio.
z
Nice article. I’m waiting for Greg Abel to buy some shares. I don’t think the stock is a “screaming buy” per se, but I don’t think it’s overvalued either. Probably somewhat undervalued. Surprised he hasn’t pulled the trigger in this latest downdraft.
DarienL profile picture
try 230ish. And AAPL around 120.
l
The thesis proposed is if Apple takes a direct hit which is highly possible if a recession impacts the sales of iPhones. During a recession, that $1k+ for an iPhone becomes a luxury item for middle-class Americans.
Envision Research profile picture
@labman106 that is possible. but in that case, do u think other stocks would fair better than AAPL or BRK?
T
@labman106 You may be right, I'm not sure. But most people consider a cellphone a necessity these days, not a luxury.
b
@ThisIsMyName a cellphone is a necessity, an iphone is not
Joe4888 profile picture
If you have an open limit order anyway, wouldn’t it be better to sell options and get paid?
s
@Joe4888 As an example, with BRK.B currently @ $283/share one might sell a 255Jan23 put and receive ca. $6. If the stock is put at contract expiration, net cost will be $249. If stock closes above $255 at expiration, the put-seller pockets the vig. No guarantees of anything, of course, but if you're a believer in BRK.B @ $255/share, what's not to like?
Envision Research profile picture
@Joe4888 Option premium gives a nice feeling of getting paid while wait. But it comes with a risk too.
Envision Research profile picture
@sanberdoo I am with u on everything till "what's not to like?"

Option premium gives a nice feeling of getting paid while wait. But it comes with a risk too. If I sell 1x put, the upside is of course the $600 of premium received. But there are downsides too. My capital ($28.3k) will be tied up till Jan 23 and I could not do anything else with it (say I see a better opportunity) than BRK. Or BRK price drops to $256 and I am ok to buy it at $256.

I view option trading more from the angle of implied volatility and do not use options unless the implied volatilities are way out whack.
S
Since we are talking price and not any particular event, I'll pick up stock at 130 to 140 range.
Far from 255 author is suggesting.
Why? Cse I prefer betting on events and not price to determine buying or selling opportunity

Buy at 255 is as good as calling for a sell at 300,.for no good reason.
Envision Research profile picture
@Sande traderal I suppose u lost me when u mentioned "I'll pick up stock at 130 to 140 range".

Why does the price of a given stock matter? Not meant to challenge anything. Just genuinely trying to understand your perspective.
S
@Envision Research my post was.to highlight that price does not matter...exactly what your asking me.
I was a bit cynical that's it 😀
Reluctant Investor profile picture
If I want to buy an apple I don’t buy an assorted fruit basket, I buy an apple.
John Alford profile picture
@Reluctant Investor I think the point of the article was you get the apple at a discount, or a whole bunch of other fruit basically for free.
I
@Reluctant Investor exactly right i couldn’t have said it any better! good one🐥
InvestRite#1 profile picture
I sure wish I had the mathmatical mind you have, so thanks for all the dazzling calcs. 2012 was the year that BRK.B's book value was that low, (in fact 1.18), at the price of $88. I wish you success
arcticfoxman profile picture
I think your low ball buy is clever, so long as you don't mind if you get them or not. I want to shift some cash into Berkshire and into Carl Icahn who in the past have seen me through tough times. I have a buy in for a thousand BRK at 274.
I was content with my holding in IEP but have decided to add a few more so have a buy in at 47.50.
These guys can look after my money better than me when the going gets tough.
John Alford profile picture
@arcticfoxman You may see $274, but I bet there are enough buy orders around yours to not see much lower unless the entire market drops way more than any talking head dares say. Like 20-30%, or J-Pow et al raise rates something wild like 100 basis points. Too much "shelter in the storm" like we both think for BRK to really drop absent capitulation market wide.
Envision Research profile picture
@arcticfoxman You last sentence nailed it. I do not plan to be actively managing my own investments forever either. There are no good old investors (whatever old means for each of us).

These guys can look after my money better than me when the going gets tough!
c
Howard Marks said an excessively low target price is a rationalization for inaction.
Money&Money,LLC profile picture
@cegibbs So when it was only $230ish right before Covid crash, means it was "excessively low" ??? geez
Envision Research profile picture
@cegibbs lol. How insightful! Although I will insist that $255 is not excessively low.
Envision Research profile picture
@Money&Money,LLC his point is - there needs to be a balance between patience and inaction.
Chatos profile picture
I like your ideas - however getting BRK.B down to 255 is wishful thinking, I would be happy to start buying at 270 but anyway good ideas
Interstellar Investments profile picture
@Chatos i don't think you understand market dynamic, if we get back to June lows of 270, we break it.

Everytime the stock market has visited the lows when the SP has been under the 200 day MA (bear market), it makes fresh new lows until a sustainable bottom is formed, and bottoms are not -20% during a bear market

If we break 270, the target is 230-240

You and may investors will quickly realize your 270 buy price support is nonexistent as your limit orders execute and the next day it drops to fresh lows
Envision Research profile picture
@Chatos it's a balance between patience and wishful thinking.
cenc profile picture
Good article. There is one problem. To get BKR to 255ish, probably means the rest of the market got just smashed. probably talking another 10%+ down on the S&P, and even more in tech. At which point, BKR is not the tastiest treat in town.
Money&Money,LLC profile picture
@cenc It was at $230 right before Covid shutdowns...
cenc profile picture
@Money&Money,LLC That was a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. Could it get back there? Sure, but it would be an even bigger market crash / retreat to go with it (or something went horribly wrong at BKR). Don't get me wrong, the day Warren or Munger dies, I will be digging change out of my couch to buy shares. Just waiting for it to react to ho hum market conditions, all things being equal, probably means there is some better deals out there.
Money&Money,LLC profile picture
@cenc Disagree
n
If you are just sitting on the cash waiting for the limit order to hit, why not just sell a cash secured put and make money for waiting? It looks like puts at that price are paying over 5% annualized, which is probably 3% better than most brokers’ cash balance interest rate.
D
@ntftm Yep, I was thinking the same thing. At least he gets paid for the cash he has sitting there waiting for the drop.
Envision Research profile picture
@ntftm The downside is that my capital ($28.3k) will be tied up till Jan 23 and I could not do anything else with it (say I see a better opportunity) than BRK. Or BRK price drops to $256 and I am ok to buy it at $256.
A
Long BRK. If it ever got to 255.00 it would be a great addition to anyones portfolio. You probably don’t need apple if you own Berkshire, they own enough of Apple.
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