TSMC gets large Intel chip order, Apple R&D plant - reports
- Taiwan-based newspaper Commercial Times reports that Intel (NASDAQ:INTC) has ordered 6nm chips from TSMC (NYSE:TSM) for next year.
- The unprecedented Intel order would reportedly include 180,000 wafers.
- TSMC's leading-edge capacity is now fully booked for H1 2021.
- In other news for the pure-play foundry, Economic Daily News says Apple is setting up a display tech R&D plant within TSMC.
- TSMC shares are up 8.2% pre-market, continuing to benefit from Intel's 7nm process yield issues.
- Additional source: Bloomberg's Tim Culpan.
- Post updated to include Bloomberg attribution.
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Comments (151)
Intel is clearly on the decline. It has fallen so much though that soon, it could be an attractive value play. Thoughts?
Sadly, it looks like the US is transferring its chip industry overseas while at the same time it is looking to outsource its software industry starting with Apple. While Trump destroys the steel industry and hurts global trade, it doesn't take Covid to cause massive job losses under Trump. The US dominated global business before him. We will see how we do afterwards. So far it doesn't look good.
Let's say Intel becomes fabless just like AMD. Let's say they become exactly like AMD, same orders from TSMC, same nm tech, etc.So, now we are comparing exactly apples to apples. So, in this case Intel has a way more sales channels, better ad campaigns, better brand recognition, and a way more cash at hand. I just look at a simple point of view.
@DimaP123 To continue the thought experiment: Intel also has inferior processor architecture; more security vulnerabilities; lacks workable GPU IP; lacks an "Infinity Fabric"-like smart interconnect; lacks MCM (Multi-Chip Module) experience and is hence stuck building monolithic CPUs.Some of the above points can be partially addressed by EMIB and Foveros packaging technology, but Intel wasted years laughing at AMD's "glued together" CPUs when they should have been throwing resources at copying them.Five years ago, Intel was making VHS tapes while AMD was making BetaMax (Bulldozer). Now Intel's making state-of-the-art VHS+++ tapes while AMD makes CDs. By the time Intel's up to CDs, AMD and TSMC will be making BlueRay disks. (Then ARM will launch a streaming service, but I'll have sold AMD and will be retired-er-er-er.)
Yeah but maybe Intel's CD's will look better then the Blu-ray's when played on OLED Tv's?
the anal ysts that stated TSMC would likely refuse Intel orders should resign for incompetency and market manipulation and be investigated by the SEC for incompetence and or market manopulation.
Well, 6nm is I believe a separate line than 5nm which means AMD still has their special 5nm process to use... I would say that AMD is right now TSMCs largest customer... Chiplets are reportedly yielding at 100per wafer so just Zen can have 180M chiplets... And that's just for 7nm/+ as again 5nm is a different fab and TSMC will give AMD all the capacity they can afford... The only think slowing share growth is believing they have the volume... 2.9M server units (possibly 4.2M chips) at 4 chiplets per (on average between 8 and 64C) that's still just 16M which they can cover even with TR, Ryzen 3000, 4000H and 4000X (milan) AND RDAN / CDNA as they are averaging 175mm with Zen averaging 70mm.. That means a POWERFUL combo at 250mm... And TSMC said they would have 14M wafers this year... Or 1m per month... That's not including any additional CAPEX so they could (if Applied Materials can do it) could mean closer to 20M wafers... I think AMD can easily do 50% of server right now... (2.6M units) with smart supply mgmt...
@David Muncier Not what insiders are saying but maybe you can say largest 7nm customer...
Of course INTC does the only thing it can....Burn it's cash to try to limit AMD's wafer allocation. Nice try INTC but it's just another bluff......
Intel is setting up a plan (using TSMC ) to build the 7nm chip for the supercomputer only, which it promised to provide to Argon by 2021, it is not the general purpose CPU. Intel is delaying for 6 months for the 7nm chip for its own use. Clearly it is also a threat to Intel fab, you'd better shape up, or else the CEO will abandon them to go with TSMC. Hopefully the fab group at Intel will shape it up, and wake up, no more slumbering around anymore.
Right. They have to use 7nm for the graphics chip at Argonne or the power usage will be much too high. Intel sold this $600M job by promising 7nm for their new GPU's for Aurora exascale.......
So what I'm trying to figure out is what happened to the fab capacity represented by the Huawei cancellations? Did AMD scoop up any of that capacity? Or did Intel just scoop it all up? This is talking about orders for the first six months of next year. I understood that in 2H20 AMD is getting 30k wafers per month, so 180k in six months. So 200k in the first six months of 2021 isn't that big of an increase, soooo... It seems like AMD's growth is going to continue to be supply constrained in 1H21... Unless they're going to 5nm in parallel with 7nm....
@me2020 do you think the 200 k wafers includes the 5 nanometers production or just 7nm? Because consoles are going to take up a huge chunk of that capacity not leaving a lot for higher-margin chips at 7nm.
@me2020 Found my answer, looks like AMD scooped up Huawei's 5nm wafers:"The monthly capacity bought by AMD includes 24,000 5nm units, pretty much the same as Huawei’s original stake."Supposedly these are being used for RDNA3 chips early next year with Zen3 Renoir and console APUs staying on N7P / N7+.www.hardwaretimes.com/...
@CL73 , good point . I would suspect its for a specific/spec. order , they are in jeopardy of contract default on ...is all. Or the shoe is gonna drop and massive layoffs are next TBA ....nonetheless it all amounts to poor decision making. Of Course this will all be "forgiven" with national security bailout .US gov't should also be asking the same questions as that contract in jeopardy ....Are your processes & Fabs up to speed / cutting edge edge on a national security level...?!Last time I checked "Intel Inside" was literally riddled with backdoor holes!
Could be attempt at limiting AMD's grow by clogging up its supply chain. Could be attempt at creating FUD for AMD investors. Definitely would be expensive for Intel due to the following reasons:1) Most of the recent x-nm+++ "process optimizations" are probably the results of creating more hard macros (custom logic/functional blocks) to improve speed (critical timing paths). These hard macros can be very process-specific, resource intensive to develop and difficult to port to a different process.2) Fabs are expensive to build and even more expensive to maintain. Intel has a lot of fabs to maintain. If these fabs aren't producing it can be even more expensive.3) TSM doesn't want to piss of their loyal customers (AMD, Nvidia, etc.) and can't commit $billions to expand fab capacity to handle Intel's order, knowing that order could be short live, if Intel can sort out their process issues.
@jaws1 I'm not having any luck googling for details, but I believe there were rumors in the (10 years+) past of Intel placing "spoiler" chipset orders with TSMC to deny AMD capacity. (Maybe around '09 at 32nm? There was also some Atom outsourcing back then?)If any industry veterans are reading this I'd value your input. I've only seen the rumors in comments sections: publications are understandably reluctant to accuse Intel of playing dirty pool.
@Rand Walker Not true because AMD made their own chips back then. AMD and GlobalFoundries used to be the same company. GlobalFoundries were AMD's foundry business.
I can't believe how cheap TSMC stock was just a few weeks ago. It was blindingly cheap for so long even though the company is pretty much guaranteed to make money for years to come, pandemic or not.
Last time AMD will ever order 200,000 wafers.