EU auto suppliers sound the alarm over electric targets

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• The European Union is planning to ban combustion engine cars by 2035, but that may have some knock-on effects on employment across the bloc. In a recent survey of the European Association of Automotive Suppliers, CLEPA, PwC found that the speed of the energy transition would put half a million jobs at risk, causing "social and economic" difficulties that would be hard to mitigate. Union leaders in Europe and North America have also warned of severe job losses, while vehicle quality could suffer as automakers struggle to manage the higher costs of building EVs.
• The disruption: There has been a lot of interest in electric cars in Europe due to very generous subsidies in places like Germany. The biggest carmakers, like Volkswagen (OTCPK:VWAGY), have also ruled out splitting their R&D budgets to focus on other technologies like e-fuels and hydrogen, since the barriers of going fully electric are high enough. That has left some suppliers on the line, which have hedged their bets and diversified their offerings.
• "We are putting the industry on the limits," Stellantis (NYSE:STLA) CEO Carlos Tavares announced last week. "What has been decided is to impose on the automotive industry electrification that brings 50% additional costs against a conventional vehicle. There is no way we can transfer 50% of additional costs to the final consumer because most parts of the middle class will not be able to pay." COP26: Not everyone on board to end car emissions by 2040.
• Fine print: The poll by PwC found that 226,000 new jobs would also be created in the manufacturing of electric parts, cutting the net number of job losses to about 275,000 by 2035. However, other jurisdictions have also set goals to end the sale of combustion vehicles, like the 2035 target in California and more ambitious 2030 mark seen in the U.K. Are electric vehicles cleaner than gasoline cars? Deeper dive into the EV industry.

Comments

[rgbudman]

www.popularmechanics.com/...

[CEFJE]

And throughout the West's EV push to '"save the planet" China has and will continue to burn coal - they are the world leader in coal use - for decades to come.
Why does everyone think they want Taiwan, it certainly couldn't be to steal the worlds largest computer chip/semiconductor manufacturing base, could it?

[DUP]

Jet Packs are the FUTURE...not EV. Personal jet packs.....

[kmi]

@DUP

Battery or gas...?

[GRComments]

@kmi Solar.

[DUP]

@kmi fussion

[DUP]

Volkswagen AG manufactures and sells automobiles primarily in Europe, North America, South America, and the Asia-Pacific. The company operates in four segments: Passenger Cars and Light Commercial Vehicles, Commercial Vehicles, Power Engineering, and Financial Services. The Passenger Cars and Light Commercial Vehicles segment develops vehicles and engines, and light commercial vehicles; and produces and sells passenger cars and related parts. The Commercial Vehicles segment develops, produces, and sells trucks and buses; and offers parts and related services. The Power Engineering segment offers large-bore diesel engines, turbomachinery, special gear units, and propulsion components. The Financial Services segment provides dealer and customer financing, leasing, banking and insurance, fleet management, and mobility services. The company also offers motorcycles. It provides its products under the Volkswagen Passenger Cars, Audi, ŠKODA, SEAT, Bentley, Porsche, Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles, Scania, MAN, Lamborghini, Ducati, and Bugatti brands. Volkswagen AG was incorporated in 1937 and is based in Wolfsburg, Germany.

[DUP]

@DUP Tesla don't, simple....

[kmi]

EVs use about 1,000x more semiconductors than ICE.

And there is a global semiconductor shortage. Because in part of governments pushing EVs.

Shortage will persist. EV cost will remain too high for most. And deadlines will be pushed out as unrealistic.

And fossils will persist. Far beyond the 2035 deadline imagined by these anti-science goons.

[DUP]

@kmi manufacturing semi conductors is chemical toxic highly polluting, process.... ever wonder why they all moved off shore decades ago? Lots of water usage, toxic chemicals....EV is not a free ride, no such thing as free energy, all ya do is move it around, same with pollution...humans are just stupid.

[kmi]

@DUP

I have never made a comment supporting EVs based on climate alarmism, which I don't subscribe to.

I like EVs. I like how they drive, I like how they sound, I like how they perform, I like charging at home.

I expect EVs to win against ICE because they are superior products. I have a similar position on solar power.

My foot can tell the difference between vehicles with carburation, mechanical fuel injection, electronic fuel injection, battery power. It likes the last one the most.

My perspective on the EV market is that it will continue to grow, and it would do so regardless of government mandates and political interventions in the market, which only create inefficiencies, like the semiconductor shortage, because as a product it is superior to ICE.

I don't get involved in the 'environmentally friendly' part of the dialogue at all.

[jaybee60]

@kmi "EVs use about 1,000x more semiconductors than ICE."

Really? What about all the components that are chipped in an ICEV but which are completely absent in an EV?

Anyway, what you are saying is that if an ICEV has, let's say for the sake of argument, 100 chips then a BEV will have 100,000? So where are they all hiding?

[Warren Buffett007]

Electric cars will be not the future.

[NZ Prof]

Yes there will be huge disruption in the auto industry - as EVs will be cheaper than ICE by 2025 to 2027 in most classes. Already demand for ICE vehicles is dropping as buyers delay purchase of new vehicles as they wait for EV prices to drop rather than buy a new ICE which will suffer a huge drop in resale value by 2025.
Most legacy auto firms will go bankrupt by 2027 or so and ICE auto workers will be job-less, as will dealer and auto-repair workers. EV and solar-panel and wind turbine factory employment will boom as will power grid workers and battery recyclers. That normal economic progress. Should we have banned mobile phones to save jobs at ATT?

[language police]

@NZ Prof ICE resale values continue to improve all the time as the vehicles continue to get better, with 300K being the new 200k which used to be the new 100K. But demand is dropping, workers and repair shops will go out of business, blah, blah. Every single sentence you write is complete BS.

[kmi]

@NZ Prof

This may have been one of the dumbest fact free comments I have read by a true believer with no sense of the industry on which they are commenting.

[DUP]

@NZ Prof Major car makers are not going Bankrupt, except GM, it already did, VW, Daimler, BMW are moving along just fine, VW is more than a car maker, it's an EMPIRE, 10 million vehicles a year..along with TOYota 10 million, all others follow, now Stalantis and Renault Nissan are the major players, all others follow

[peace 2 u]

There are a lot of egos running around saying that this or that is the greatest thing about the future of transportation. Rechargeable batteries do not last forever. Manufacturers say how many miles can be had on a single charge; what they are not saying is what the mileage would be after 50,000 miles on the battery. When the battery gets down to needing to be recharged every 150 miles (about 2.5 hours of running time on the Interstate) how valuable is that electric car?

From the Rocky Mountains to the Appalachian Mountains there is a lot of mileage which does not have good internet and/or cell service; there is also a lot of miles without electricity. Until there is a tremendous amount money spent on establishing standards which all firms must adhere to, for such things and amps, volts and wiring, and infrastructure; electric vehicles will not be successful. Even today there are long distances without a gas station, especially off of the Interstate. Just recall the last time you saw a sign on the highway saying, "No services for 45 miles."

If one wants to point out what Europe is doing, it would only be fair to look at the severe shortage of natural gas for electricity generation.

Just a thought or two.

[trikidiki]

@peace 2 u
....and there were petrol stations everywhere from the Rocky Mountains to the Appalachian Mountains when gas cars first evolved.

[NZ Prof]

@peace 2 u - So if EVs can run well over 350 miles and recharge stations can use solar - what's the issue?

[GRComments]

@NZ Prof Can recharge stations use solar dependably? How much solar is needed to supply charging for several vehicles and allow for a week or more without power?

[beeeerock]

Well, demand and cost curves will very likely kill ICE production long before 2035. It's insanity to think that they can somehow legislate themselves into a viable business model. Adapt or die. Most will die, because they don't know how to adapt, let along have the desire to do so.

[RickJensen]

People are way out in front of their skis on this.
ICE vehicles might very likely never go away. It is amazing to see how philosophy is too dumb to look at reality.

[NZ Prof]

@RickJensen - My viewpoint is that employment in the horse buggy business is secure as nobody will want to buy those noisy slow auto-thingies!

[language police]

@NZ Prof The speed limit of man was once determined by horses or wind on the seas. Horse drawn carriages went out of business because they couldn't compete with the speed of motorized vehicles. EV vs. ICE does not involve such quantitative differences.

[kmi]

@RickJensen

I don't think ICE persist forever, there are way too many benefits to EVs and the technology is moving rapidly.

2035 is just a ridiculous target however, neither the technology is quite there nor is the global supply chain.

ICE improved over 120 years and are still improving, but a lot of the more recent improvements have been at the cost of complexity.

EV will encounter qualitative improvements like fuel injection did for carburation.

[aurelio milaor cabal]

Buy TSLA and BYD and ax Peng & Nio , in that order it is the future , others are a gamble, with legacy auto having to go to BEVs they are going to have to do a very fine balancing act to survive, ICE are sunk costs and liabilities.

[Sermer]

Here's the deal: they don't have a choice. BEV is the future and TSLA is making it happen with or without them. Either adapt or die.

This is why disruptive technologies typically replace the old guard. Sometimes it's easier to start from scratch than it is to adapt. You know, besides GM leading the way lol

[Harsh Truth]

@Sermer It is always better to start from the scratch because it is difficult to adapt as bad habits die hard.

[hobbomac]

Sky fall

[Xempler]

Why does anyone listen to Europe? They can't go 15 minutes without threatening war on one another.

[trikidiki]

@Xempler
1861-1865
At least we don't fight ourselves.

[Xempler]

@trikidiki Yeah...and everytime you have fought yourselves over the past 100 years, you needed us to intervene.

[trikidiki]

@Xempler
You were late on parade in 1941.

[ronald61239]

It is my belief, battery power is a stop gap to the future. Other forms of energy are being developed at present & investments in infostructure will come along with it.
The purpose behind it is to save mankind & the world. Dose cost matter ????

[Xempler]

@ronald61239 of course costs matter. Did you miss the unintended consequences of the global lockdown?

[ronald61239]

@Xempler ---Sorry not comparable !!

[Xempler]

@ronald61239 Completely comparable. You stated , in essence, that's costs don't matter, which is fallacious. Using the logic that costs don't matter to "save mankind" we should shut down all fossil fuels today.

[J2568]

It will be interesting to see if the proponents of the rapid shift to clean energy are willing to shoulder the higher costs that will come along with it.

[Xempler]

@J2568 No. They won't. They'll shift the costs to those less able to.

[NZ Prof]

@J2568 - EVs costs will be lower than ICE by 2025 in nearly all classes. Already EVs are cheaper in the upper luxury market. Solar and wind is now cheaper to build and run than new coal or gas power stations. Firms will adopt clean energy because its more profitable.

[J2568]

@NZ Prof mmmmmmm…….

CEO Carlos Tavares announced last week. "What has been decided is to impose on the automotive industry electrification that brings 50% additional costs against a conventional vehicle. There is no way we can transfer 50% of additional costs to the final consumer because most parts of the middle class will not be able to pay."

A little dose of reality goes a long way

[ginsaw]

"EU auto suppliers sound the alarm over electric targets"

No kidding? Really? And once again people have NOT gotten the picture.

This is NOT about electric cars. It is not about ecology. The "global warming" so-called is merely the carefully and cynically concocted excuse.

The grand plan is cancel all consumptive use of natural resources in order to leave only electric power mainly from solar and wind which government can easily ration. All for the control purpose such represents and makes possible.

In a word, it's called Communism. And why more don't see that, the world wonders.

Fact is, many of "them" in rather unguarded moments have expressly said so. Check out "Climate Gate", the Communist party's open mic moment. Or Sen. Tim Kaine during the 2016 campaign, "we shall introduce rationing of electrical power to fight global warming". And what tune do they march to? Check out their cute little earth day protest placards, "Stop Global Warming -Stop Capitalism".

How much proof do we need and when are people going to get together and DO something about it?? Because your present unlimited mobility and freedom is directly being targeted.

It's like this, if you really need it explained. He who controls all production and use of energy automatically controls all human rights, endeavors and affairs. Jobs, homes and housing, where you live, land use and ownership, food distribution and what you can eat, healthcare, education and energy itself.

..this is really not hard to understand...

[bondsmoker]

@ginsaw

Ever heard of the Bildebergs?

[ginsaw]

@bondsmoker Bildebergs? Actually, no, I had not heard of them. But because you mentioned it and on a hunch, I looked it up.

I noted this quote out of them, "To say we were striving for a one-world government is exaggerated, but not wholly unfair."

Which explains why I'd want absolutely nothing to do with them or their goals. It is the exact opposite of anything I'd want.

Funny in a way, but even Fidel Castro of all people low rated them. But I believe if he'd given it a bit more thought, he and they would have agreed the whole one-world government movement has more than a little in common with communalism or if you want, International Communism. Or as someone else put it, "It Takes A Village".

Another bit of trivia, you know the popular song played at Democrat functions, the Beatles' "Imagine". The one of them who wrote it self-described it as the "new Communist anthem" taking place of the old "Internationale" which apparently is considered a bit passe these days. The most charming version of which I know is sung in Russian at the MI6 secret service Christmas party in the movie "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy".

..the intellectual history behind all this I find fascinating...

[Ruffdog]

"The poll by PwC found that 226,000 new jobs..." Many more when you count the jobs in electrical energy, solar, energy storage and distribution. More like 2.26 million.
Look at all the jobs created around GFBerlin alone. 15,000 work in the assembly plant alone and probable another 15,000 GFBerlin support jobs.
And that is one EV assembly plant alone!

[ginsaw]

@Ruffdog "Many more when you count the jobs in electrical energy, solar, energy storage and distribution. More like 2.26 million."

That is not how this works. There is an overall need for X number of cars and X number of workers needed to produce cars. All that is totally regardless of what kind of car.

You take away jobs from producing car A and put them to work producing car B does not add a whole additional layer of worker. It is addition through subtraction. This whole scheme simply re-arranges the work force rather than adds to it.

Same result with the cars themselves aside from the workers, no matter how powered. And same with the production of energy. After the workers lose their jobs who produce energy through the consumptive use of natural resources, you shift them over to producing energy through wind and solar.

The best case is, the workforce stays the same. There are no additional jobs for anybody. This exercise produces no need for additional workers, but it DOES produce a truly enormous inconvenience and lack of personal mobility for the average citizen due to the elimination of freedom caused by the imposition of energy rationing. Which our Socialist rulers have consciously figured into their equations. And expressly said so numerous times.

There is however the real danger that both the numbers of workers and cars needed COULD be drastically lower due to the fact that wind and solar will NOT power a nation nor power a nation-wide fleet of electric vehicles only. Which is what the Left has planned here. There will be grossly insufficient electrical power for that. With a consequent reduction in cars, travel and workers needed.

THAT is what you wind up with here, no matter how you slice it up...it's back to the Stone Ages for us.

[Astrobuf]

This is lunacy. In my city, 13kv power lines run down the alley to power about 50 homes/block. This means 1.3Megawatts must power all homes. 50 homes means about 120 cars/block.

A rapid charger will draw about 25,000 watts. 50 cars charging thus equals 1.25Megawatts. No heat, light, ac....

To actually deploy electric cars to more than about 20% of the population whole cities will have to be rewired. It may not be feasible to do so safely. I certainly do not want a 100,000 volt line running down my alley!

[cons123]

EV's do have some limitations in distance, electrification stations, cost of recharging and several significant environmental concerns. Trying to replace all ICE with EV will not work and will not be accepted by frequent long-distance travelers.