5G rollout has airlines sound the alarm on "catastrophic" aviation crisis
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- Do 5G signals affect aircraft equipment? The answer to that question is dividing the telecom and aviation industries, and many consumers are set to get stuck in the middle. At issue are altimeters, or devices that use radio frequencies to measure the distance between aircraft and the ground, and help planes land in bad weather. Aviation officials and the FAA worry that new cellular frequencies could endanger aircraft by throwing off the readings, while telecom-industry representatives say that is not the case, citing the stance of the FCC and other regulators around the world.
- What's happening? AT&T (NYSE:T) and Verizon (NYSE:VZ) are set to deploy their new 5G service on the C-band tomorrow after spending tens of billions of dollars on spectrum auctions (T-Mobile's (NASDAQ:TMUS) licenses only become available in late 2023). While the C-band auctions took place last October, tensions between the sides are coming to a head now because federal agencies did not act earlier to work through the disagreements. In fact, the drama has already delayed the latest 5G rollout twice, first by 30 days and then by two weeks, but this time around the release looks like it is actually happening.
- "Unless our major hubs are cleared to fly, the vast majority of the traveling and shipping public will essentially be grounded," the CEOs of American Airlines (NASDAQ:AAL), Delta (NYSE:DAL), United (NASDAQ:UAL), FedEx (NYSE:FDX) and UPS (NYSE:UPS) warned in a letter - that referred to a "catastrophic" aviation crisis. "This means that on a day like yesterday, more than 1,100 flights and 100,000 passengers would be subjected to cancellations, diversions or delays. To be blunt, the nation's commerce will grind to a halt."
- Go deeper: AT&T and Verizon have already agreed to buffer zones around 50 airports to reduce interference risks, as well as other steps to cut potential interference for six months. However, airlines not only feel that the precautionary measures could be limiting, but also render some aircraft types unusable, like Boeing (NYSE:BA) 787s, 777s and 737s. The battle comes as 5G cellular services are rolled out in several frequencies nationwide to keep the networks from becoming too congested.
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Comments (238)
T-Mobile's 5G is not affecting airports as well.L'chaimwww.businesswire.com/...
I'm surprised T-Mobile hasn't popped on this as their 5G is not near airports..............
Fundamental frequency interference is definitely a problem with impacted data from the radar altimeter entering into an aircraft's controls systems, even thrust reversers, but there's also a problem with harmonics (2nd and beyond frequencies).
Why don't we fly a couple of predator drones around these airports and see if they fall out of the sky?One sure way to test this absurdity around 5G!
As usual a solution is at hand if only government had the stones to make decisions.
The FAA could easily proclaim all aircraft owners are responsible for the frequency sensitivity of their altimeters.Simple bandwidth tests certifing compliance of existing equipment could be required to eliminate other sources as a possible failure.The FCC took the money for C band auctions and now is responsible for providing licenced use of legitimate frequencies to those who bought the C band for commercial use.To claim one side has gamed the system is just more politics.Time to dig in by federal agencys' to do their jobs.If old altimeters are the problem, enforce replacement requirements. Stop jamming another agencys' use of the spectrum to extract a toll or compensate agrieved parties.Every cell phone owner, airplane, cell phone service provider, avionics mfg, and crash site victim is also an agrieved party.
The only ones not agrieved are lawyers yet they will see the most reward in all of this.The FED created this. They should clean it up.
If older aircraft avionics is inadequate for legitimate service, flight limits in future use or flight conditions are a possible solution.
A continued use at your own risk and liability clause would end commercial use of noncertified equipment.
There always will be private users who abuse the rules.
There are now it won't change.If this is stated and enforced it would be amazing how quickly old equipment was replaced.We used to paint in houses with lead paint.
We used to take trains to get from here to there.
Walked or rode horses before automobiles.Some things do change.
Government stupidity seems perpetual.
The FAA could easily proclaim all aircraft owners are responsible for the frequency sensitivity of their altimeters.Simple bandwidth tests certifing compliance of existing equipment could be required to eliminate other sources as a possible failure.The FCC took the money for C band auctions and now is responsible for providing licenced use of legitimate frequencies to those who bought the C band for commercial use.To claim one side has gamed the system is just more politics.Time to dig in by federal agencys' to do their jobs.If old altimeters are the problem, enforce replacement requirements. Stop jamming another agencys' use of the spectrum to extract a toll or compensate agrieved parties.Every cell phone owner, airplane, cell phone service provider, avionics mfg, and crash site victim is also an agrieved party.
The only ones not agrieved are lawyers yet they will see the most reward in all of this.The FED created this. They should clean it up.
If older aircraft avionics is inadequate for legitimate service, flight limits in future use or flight conditions are a possible solution.
A continued use at your own risk and liability clause would end commercial use of noncertified equipment.
There always will be private users who abuse the rules.
There are now it won't change.If this is stated and enforced it would be amazing how quickly old equipment was replaced.We used to paint in houses with lead paint.
We used to take trains to get from here to there.
Walked or rode horses before automobiles.Some things do change.
Government stupidity seems perpetual.
@kmi Good additional info!!
This is what's needed. More people looking into operating parameters to make a reasonable compromise decisions.
Transmission signal strength can overwhelm a receiver's filtering ability to separate near channel interference.
The use and direction of antennas their gain characteristics and installation all important parts of the puzzle.
Another commentor says Monday the FAA cleared about 45% of Boeing and Airbus aircraft. All of a sudden it starts happening.
Less drama, more solutions. All good.Need to know how big the foot print at the end of the runways are where 5g is to be "limited".What compensation do those in the no 5g zone earn for their unfortunate existence in our version of radio free America?Things like no autonomous EV traffic due to signal loss?
Banking and commerce server free zones to reduce trade in major US cities?Most important no more streaming "Friends" reruns from Netflix?These activities have an intrinsic value and cost in many facets of our economy and society.The FAA oversight needs it's own oversight to insure the rest of America still has use of FCC allowed enjoyment of available technologies.Not saying if it works in Europe we should adapt to all things Europe.
Reasons have differences and need to be openly vetted.
We live here, not there.
Solutions need to work for us, not them.Thanks @serndipity for FAA update.
This is what's needed. More people looking into operating parameters to make a reasonable compromise decisions.
Transmission signal strength can overwhelm a receiver's filtering ability to separate near channel interference.
The use and direction of antennas their gain characteristics and installation all important parts of the puzzle.
Another commentor says Monday the FAA cleared about 45% of Boeing and Airbus aircraft. All of a sudden it starts happening.
Less drama, more solutions. All good.Need to know how big the foot print at the end of the runways are where 5g is to be "limited".What compensation do those in the no 5g zone earn for their unfortunate existence in our version of radio free America?Things like no autonomous EV traffic due to signal loss?
Banking and commerce server free zones to reduce trade in major US cities?Most important no more streaming "Friends" reruns from Netflix?These activities have an intrinsic value and cost in many facets of our economy and society.The FAA oversight needs it's own oversight to insure the rest of America still has use of FCC allowed enjoyment of available technologies.Not saying if it works in Europe we should adapt to all things Europe.
Reasons have differences and need to be openly vetted.
We live here, not there.
Solutions need to work for us, not them.Thanks @serndipity for FAA update.
Nothing like waiting till the last minute before calling out 5G. The FAA is run by fools. WTF?? Catastrophe? Really? Wait till the last days before turning on 5G and then have a hissy fit? Talk about being late to the party. This whole debacle is beyond stupid.
@dontbelieveit Boeing and Airbus should select newer , better altimeters. Clearly the newer models don’t have problems. That is his they are being sloppy. Boeing and Airbus should have been well aware of 5g C-band.
5G is the future of telecom worldwide and too important.Safety wIll be addressed.It looks like TMOBILE's 2.5 Band spectrum just got even more valuable.
Why isn't TMobile mentioned do they use a different kind of spectrum?
@MSF INVESTMENTS
all of the big 3 cell coms are currently using 5G that does NOT involve the frequencies that are risky to aviation - which is why there is no reason to not take the time to get this right. the bands that are a risk to aviation are part of the auctions that the cell coms bid on and won - so there is value to them if they can't use them. But it is completely inaccurate that 5G won't happen if deployment of the bands at issue here are slowed down.
all of the big 3 cell coms are currently using 5G that does NOT involve the frequencies that are risky to aviation - which is why there is no reason to not take the time to get this right. the bands that are a risk to aviation are part of the auctions that the cell coms bid on and won - so there is value to them if they can't use them. But it is completely inaccurate that 5G won't happen if deployment of the bands at issue here are slowed down.
@SOS TUPPER
you are free to believe that but when Boeing sends out advisories to 777 and 787 operators re: the use of their aircraft in 5G areas near airports, their guidance and not yours matters.
you are free to believe that but when Boeing sends out advisories to 777 and 787 operators re: the use of their aircraft in 5G areas near airports, their guidance and not yours matters.
looks like T and VZ have agreed not to turn on C band 5G near some US airports on Wed.
there is no company that is willing to be responsible for the delay or cancellation of flights, or let alone a safety incident involving an aircraft.
there is no company that is willing to be responsible for the delay or cancellation of flights, or let alone a safety incident involving an aircraft.
@Tim Dunn Why doesn't this affect TMOBILE is it because they use a different band?
@Blunder Boy I have heard lots of people claim 5g is dangerous and can cause brain damage. The problem is that most of those people already have brain damage.